Talk:Government of National Unity (Hungary)

Discussion about the article's title

You can find it at Talk:Kingdom_of_Hungary_(1920–1946)#Was_the_Kingdom_actually_abolished_in_1944-45_.3F. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 10:55, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Ok, after the discussions here and here, I'm going to make significant changes to the article, and notably changing its title. It seems that the exact nature of the Szalasi regime has been misinterpreted by previous editors. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 07:57, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

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Recent edits

Dear IP,

a government is not a state.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:17, 26 September 2020 (UTC))

Government articles can also be state articles, and plus this was a puppet government established by Nazi Germany, which means that Hungary became a puppet state even if it originally wasn't one. -- 177.207.54.96 (talk) 23:36, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

While not here, and again, the government passed through legal framework, and anyway a puppet government not necessarily makes a state puppet.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:46, 28 September 2020 (UTC))

The government being passed through legal framework doesn't mean it isn't a puppet though, plus Horthy wouldn't do it if the Germans didn't force him to, and how does a puppet government not make a state a puppet? This doesn't make sense. -- 177.158.117.125 (talk) 23:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Please do not confuse the two terms, pupper states are created or established, this is a bit different from puppet governments, however this case we could not even speak of true puppet issued.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:39, 30 September 2020 (UTC))

This distinction doesn't exist, a puppet government makes a state a puppet automatically, and also, how exactly was the government not a puppet? -- 191.34.233.149 (talk) 19:07, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Sorry, you are assering hypothetical things, it not as you say. I already explained the government was set and passed legally, keeping all contstututional framework in a multi-party system.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:40, 2 October 2020 (UTC))

But again, the government was only set and passed because Horthy was forced to, plus Horthy was also forced to resign as regent after the government was set up. -- 187.58.89.110 (talk) 21:31, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

It does not change the earlier mentioned.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:21, 5 October 2020 (UTC))

But just because it was established through legal means doesn't meant it wasn't a puppet government, plus Horthy himself said that it had little legality because he was forced to, and also abolishing the title of regent was quite a big change for the country. 179.183.231.78 (talk) 22:40, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Your argumentation is very circular. Horthy's later evaluation is not binding back in time, and Leader of the Nation was established instead, which was quite similar.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:14, 9 October 2020 (UTC))

Leader of the Nation is far more similar to other Fascist titles such as "Führer", "Duce", "Caudillo", etc, than to the title of regent, and anyway, many sources describe the Government of National Unity as a puppet, such as this one: https://books.google.com.br/books?id=HWL_CAAAQBAJ&pg=PA182&dq=arrow+cross+hungary+puppet+nazi&hl=pt-BR&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiq-ruAmKvsAhWNGbkGHQfABGoQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q&f=false -- 177.207.146.84 (talk) 23:38, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Similarities could exist with the title Caesar as well in this context...despite, a government is not a country.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:54, 10 October 2020 (UTC))

Again, a country being ruled by a puppet government makes that country a puppet state by default, your argumentation is very circular. -- 177.207.61.7 (talk) 00:27, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

If I am circular, it is just becuase you reiterate thing we already discussed. As said earlier, your automatic assumption is arguable, to say nothing of the other whereabouts I already told.(KIENGIR (talk) 14:20, 12 October 2020 (UTC))

I don't see how it is arguable to call a country ruled by a puppet government a puppet state. -- 177.19.87.206 (talk) 23:29, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I already explained, puppet states are created or founded usually, and again, goverments are not states. In any field could be anything a puppet by a certain point of view.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:58, 13 October 2020 (UTC))

This distinction doesn't exist, and what do you mean with "In any field could be anything a puppet by a certain point of view"? -- 191.34.184.197 (talk) 22:05, 16 October 2020 (UTC)

But, yes, there are created puppet states. I mean that regarding many countries we could assume foreign influence or intervention at any level - anytime in history -, and by taste we may judge differently how deep it would be.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:05, 17 October 2020 (UTC))

Of course there is, but just because a state wasn't created as puppet doesn't mean it can't become one, and many sources describe the Government of National Unity as puppet of Nazi Germany, if you are trying to claim that it wasn't, you will have to provide sources to support your claim. -- 191.34.234.118 (talk) 23:36, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Again your are confusing governments with states.(KIENGIR (talk) 04:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC))

Again, when a country is ruled by a puppet government that country automatically becomes a puppet state, and as I mentioned before, most sources describe the Government of National Unity as a puppet. -- 179.179.166.195 (talk) 20:47, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

No, does not become automatically, read above.(KIENGIR (talk) 08:23, 25 October 2020 (UTC))

How is a country that is ruled by a puppet government not a puppet state? This doesn't make sense. -- 177.19.69.206 (talk) 21:00, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

You've been explained everything more times. However, please understand finally this article is about a Government, not else.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:48, 29 October 2020 (UTC))

As I have said before, Hungary became a puppet state after the Government was established, for this reason, state categories should be restored. -- 179.179.166.72 (talk) 07:29, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

So you still don't want to understand this is a Government artcle.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:31, 2 November 2020 (UTC))

You still don't want to understand that Hungary became a puppet state after the Government was established. -- 177.159.31.28 (talk) 03:44, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Straw-man argumentation. Here the issue is something else, won't repeat anymore, this discussion ends here.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:10, 4 November 2020 (UTC))

Fine, but then you should stop removing the categories until you can actually make a case for these edits. -- 177.159.219.212 (talk) 22:52, 8 November 2020 (UTC)