Talk:George Miller (filmmaker)

Why isn't -

this page given the same kind of attention that Spielberg's and Lucas' pages are? Or Miyazaki, for that matter? It just seems like such a short, uninformative article (or, a 'stub') for this particular director. — 71.53.85.163 (talk) 07:23, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Personal life?

Anyone know his personal life? Like is he married? — 99.14.133.4 (talk) 05:53, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Greek descent

The reference to the director's Greek descent in the start of the article keeps on being removed by HappyWaldo on the grounds of lack of notability, and that only his Australian nationality is notable. As both of George Miller's parents are Greek, I maintain that the info on his ethnic background is notable to Greek diaspora, anyone interested on the person's general background, and of course Australia's own sizeable Greek community. I do not see any good reason for removing this. Alternatively, if the disagreement is on the wording of Greek descent, the text can become a Greek-Australian and have his birth name as well George Miliotis within parentheses Gts-tg (talk) 06:57, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

"Greek descent" is a very recent addition that you made, and it doesn't belong in the lead per WP:OPENPARAGRAPH: "Ethnicity should not generally be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability." Miller's not making films about the Greek-Australian experience. - HappyWaldo (talk) 07:06, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

How recently it was added or not is of no relevance, and if WP:OPENPARAGRAPH needs to be read at face value and to the letter he is not notable for being Australian either but for making movies(he holds both nationalities). I will be waiting for further feehttp://www.sydneyartsguide.com.au/mad-max-fury-road/#more-20642dback from other editors on the above. Gts-tg (talk) 07:12, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

The reference was removed yet one more time by HappyWaldo. Gts-tg (talk) 07:16, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

MOS "The opening paragraph should have: ... Context (location and nationality)." Miller was born, raised and currently lives in Australia. His films are Australian productions. His nationality clearly belongs in the lead. - HappyWaldo (talk) 07:19, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Of course it clearly belongs to the lead, the argument with regards to whether he is famous for his nationality or his filmaking was to show that it would be absurd not to have the nationality in the lead. As per WP:OPENPARAGRAPH definitions, his nationality is Australian, his ethnicity is Greek-Australian and he is a notable member of the Greek-Australian community(numbering 400k+). Any wikilawyering or edit-warring is not going to change that, do not remove this again without discussing first, edit summaries like nothing to discuss are not acceptable. If you believe I am breaching any wiki guidelines then raise this to a admin, in fact I will have to do so if you continue reverting as well as removing further contents(I wasn't even the one who added this) without discussing first. Gts-tg (talk) 17:47, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

I get that Greeks are proud of his parents being Greek immigrants, especially now Mad Max is back in the news and everyone loves it, but ethnicity isn't listed in other introductions on Wikipedia. If it was most of the Australian entries would read Scottish-Australian, Irish-Australian, Italian-Australian, German-Australian etc. I don't see why this article should be the exception. Should Wikipedia start listing Snowtown murderer James Vlassakis as a Greek-Australian serial killer? Or do people only want ethnicity pointed out when someone is successful? It sure seems that way. Miller's family background is clearly listed. Also, his birth name is George Miller; he didn't change anything, it was anglicised back in 1921 when the family migrated to Australia and all of his siblings are Millers too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.2.13.210 (talk) 06:58, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment, in my view, the piece of info is interesting to both Greeks and anyone interested in the general background (e.g. as per the mention of being a former medical doctor). As for ethnicity being listed in other articles, it is my impression that it is, especially for the most common of ancestries(e.g. Italian-American, French-Spanish etc), that is according to my experience. Of course this would also apply to James Vlassakis as well, as his background is Greek-Australian, and although a black sheep it is a useful piece of info to know about him for anyone. I don't understand why you are certain that it wouldn't apply to him. The edit confrontation really went out of proportion, for something as small as a piece of info as this, because there wasn't any discussion previously. With regards to the birthname there are 3 sources that say it is George Miliotis, I only placed the first one next to the name so that there aren't too many citations listed next to the name, but you can find the rest in the infobox and in the main text(as well as imdb page). However I would find it reasonable to be removed if there are other sources claiming(or stating) George Miller as a birth name Gts-tg (talk) 10:48, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Ethnicity isn't listed in most opening paragraphs of Wikipedia, because, as WP:OPENPARAGRAPH states, it isn't part of why they are notable. George Miller's ancestry isn't part of why he's notable, so it shouldn't be in the intro. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 20:44, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Gts-tg - Your impression is incorrect. General Wikipedia policy says ethnicity shouldn't be listed in the opening paragraph. Hence Hugh Jackman isn't a British-Australian actor, Cate Blanchett isn't an American-Australian actor, Baz Luhrmann isn't a German-Australian-Irish film director etc. Ditto religion, unless it has strong notability (the Pope, say). The issues with both ethnicity and religion on Wikipedia is that they're not clear cut. Most people have a mix of ethnicities and religions when you start going back. That's why the article has always had Australian director (lives and works in Australia, makes Australian films), with detailed info about ethnic heritage, childhood etc in later paragraphs, for people who are interested. As for medical doctor - well, that's listed because his full title is Dr George Miller. Being a doctor also directly informs his filmmaking: Mad Max was inspired by Miller treating car crash victims as an ER doctor, his film Lorenzo's Oil was about curing ALD etc. Doctor doesn't have to be in the first paragraph, it could be below that but I'd leave it there as there's a direct link to his notability. With regards to birth name - the article itself explains both the maternal and paternal anglicisations. Now the intro directly contradicts the rest of the article. The family details have come from research on kythera-family.net, which list him as Miller and explains the name changes of previous generations. The Greek-Australian site seems detailed, reliable and researched. http://www.kythera-family.net/index.php?nav=3-10&cid=63-90&did=2722 Imdb is a really poor source - people copy its mistakes all over the internet. If you still think the names of the Miller siblings are disputed then it should be left out until confirmed either way by something official like Qld Birth, Deaths, Marriages. p.s I think you missed the point about James Vlassakis. Greek Australian isn't notable or relevant, it's got nothing to do with him killing people. He's just an Australian serial killer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.129.80.207 (talk • contribs) 07:52, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

A few things:

• What I mean by my impression is people like, Joel Kinnaman being a Swedish-American actor, Dwayne Johnson being an American-Canadian actor, Arnold Schwarzenegger being an Austrian-born actor, etc.
• With regards to the Wiki policy, I am sure it has a good reason for being there, but in the particular case I do not see a problem being created. In fact I didn't know that Hugh Jackman is partly British and that Cate Blanchett is partly American so I found this an interesting bit of trivia to come across. In Miller's case, I believe that he is a notable member of the Greek diaspora, however, if the community decides that there is an issue with stating the ethnicity, then it will have to be removed. Please use accounts instead of IPs when possible.
• On the birth name, I've read the detailed report by the kythera-family.net website, and it does not mention anything about his birth name, but his father's and grandfather's. It says that his father changed his surname from Miliotis to Miller, it doesn't say that Miller(George) was born as Miller, so it would be a reasonable assumption to make only if there weren't other sources that specifically cite Miliotis as birth name(refs 1 and 2, without taking into account imdb). As such it does not contradict the article(although some clarification could be useful) just the assumption made. On a separate note, the source has misspellings in the Greek names(e.g. Envangalia instead of Evangelia, and Balloyoulo instead of Balloyoulou).
• As for Vlassakis, it was your question on whether I'd like to see Vlassakis listed as Greek-Australian instead of Australian, due to his infamy, to which my reply was that yes I would not mind and I would find it reasonable. Gts-tg (talk) 15:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Boy, you really want George's birthname to be Miliotis not Miller. Okay, I did a quick check for you. Official documents are preferable to guesswork or unverified articles. George's father enrolled in the Australian Army as James Miller. He couldn't enrol in the military as Miller unless he was Miller. When James married and had children after this, they would be Miller too. The Miliotis name had changed before George was born. Unless you seriously want to argue that his father gave his sons a different surname to his own? http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/DetailsReports/ItemDetail.aspx?Barcode=4895335&isAv=N (I know it says Kythira for birthplace but as you pointed out, when anglicising Greek words people don't always agree on English spelling). As for the examples you cited - they're people born in one country who migrated to a different one, or who had parents from different countries and work in both etc. They reinforce the policy about ethnicity. The Rock, for example, isn't listed isn't as American-Samoan but the article does describe his family background and ethnicity in childhood/background. As others have pointed out multiple times, it's all about notability not personal interest or infamy or any of those things. The notability for George Miller is that he makes films. The ethnicity (Greek heritage) isn't linked to the notability (making films) and when that's the case Wikipedia clearly says it shouldn't be in the first paragraph. If Miller made films in both Australia and Greece, or made films with Greek themes, then you could argue notability but he doesn't. p.s I used to have a Wikipedia account but I can't remember the login now. This back and forth to fix mistakes reminds me why I stopped spending time editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.129.80.207 (talk) 03:17, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Hey, no reason to get worked up, this is not a good way to have a conversation, commenting on me instead of the arguments. As to what you checked, I believe there is a confirmation bias in there as essentially you re-verified the story about Miller's father, not Miller himself, which is what I explained in the part that I wrote about above. But I really have spent too much time on this, my issue was not so much about having the ethnicity but about another editor removing and reverting without discussing first. So, to finish with this, if you really believe that leaving out the ethnicity and not taking into account the direct references on the birth name, is going to make a better encyclopaedia (this is what counts at the end beyond anything else), then go ahead and make the changes you want to see. I hope you are going to be right Gts-tg (talk) 09:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Not confirmation bias, I just don't like it when longstanding entries are altered using unreliable sources, especially when more sources state something different. I verified the family name change with a military document about his father. (The link above times out as it's a govt database but the info on http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au reads MILLER JAMES : Service Number - QX42438 : Date of birth - 25 Nov 1910 : Place of birth - MITATA KYTHIRA GREECE : Place of enlistment - JANDOWAE QLD : Next of Kin - MILLER COLIN). This clears up ambiguity in other sources like kythera-family.net about whether Miliotis was dropped for Miller before or after George's year of birth, 1945. It isn't reasonable to suggest his father legally changed his own name, gave his children a different name, then later changed all their names to match his. Birthname in intro should be reverted to what it always was on Wikipedia. "Early life" should explain the family history and name change, as it already does (although this section could be expanded). Ethnicity in opening paragraph doesn't follow notability guidelines as it isn't linked to his actual notability (filmmaking) and should be reverted to what it was too ie. explained in "early life". Category: Australian people of Greek descent should, of course, remain here with all the other categories Miller fits. Basically, recent changes should go because the entry was more accurate before. I'd do it but someone has locked the page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.129.80.207 (talk) 01:15, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

What do you see as unreliable sources (this, this or this)? How are there more sources state something different when the source you present is stating info about his father and not him? Don't you see that you are doing original research by assuming that his father's name change applied to him as well when there are sources stating differently? Make the change if you want to, but please do not claim that the sources to the contrary are unreliable and fewer. Gts-tg (talk) 01:26, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Photos used

Through his agent, George Miller has expressed a preference for having File:George Miller while filming Fury Road (cropped).jpg and File:George Miller at Fury Road premiere.jpg illustrate the article about him. This was expressed in Ticket:2015092110003083 (consent to divulge this was also expressly given). I explained that the choice of which photos illustrate which articles is up to the editors of the page, but offered to swap them out once. I have now done so in Special:Diff/686316415/691212397. Storkk (talk) 10:30, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

Gap in His Career

Can anyone explain the 8-year gap in his career? According to IMDB, he has no credits from 1998 to 2006. Does anyone know why? The gap sits between Babe: Pig in the City, and Happy Feet.‎ MiguelMunoz (talk | contribs)‎ 09:04, 21 September 2016

It's likely possible he was working on what would become Mad Max: Fury Road around that time. MightyArms (talk) 18:15, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

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