Talk:Frieren

Orphaned references in Frieren

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Frieren's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "vol5":

• From Fly Me to the Moon (manga): トニカクカワイイ 5 (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 27, 2020. Retrieved February 8, 2020.
• From Sōbōtei Kowasubeshi: 双亡亭壊すべし ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 26, 2020. Retrieved April 27, 2019.
• From Kimi wa 008: 君は００８ ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 25, 2020. Retrieved October 25, 2020.
• From Kiyo in Kyoto: 舞妓さんちのまかないさん ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 26, 2020. Retrieved November 22, 2019.
• From Tokachi Hitoribocchi Nōen: 十勝ひとりぼっち農園 ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 29, 2020. Retrieved December 19, 2020.
• From Ariadne in the Blue Sky: 蒼穹のアリアドネ ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 26, 2020. Retrieved April 26, 2019.
• From Mao (manga): ＭＡＯ ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 25, 2020. Retrieved July 15, 2020.
• From Amano Megumi wa Sukidarake!: 天野めぐみはスキだらけ！ ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 26, 2020. Retrieved April 27, 2019.
• From Aozakura: あおざくら 防衛大学校物語 ５ (in Japanese). Shogakukan. Archived from the original on October 27, 2020. Retrieved October 16, 2020.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 23:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

Article name

Should it be changed to the official English title or Japanese? Its currently neither. WillsEdtior777 (talk) 12:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

What exactly do you mean? the article is just named "Frieren" and not "Frieren: Beyond Journey's End" simply per WP:CONCISE, similarly "Shomin Sample" is not named "Shomin Sample: I Was Abducted by an Elite All-Girls School as a Sample Commoner", "WorldEnd" is not named "WorldEnd: What Do You Do at the End of the World? Are You Busy? Will You Save Us?", and "Rurouni Kenshin" is not named "Rurouni Kenshin: Meiji Swordsman Romantic Story". Xexerss (talk) 13:03, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Yeah but on this instance the main character is also called Frieren which makes it a bit of an odd case, don't you think? WillsEdtior777 (talk) 14:46, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Not really. It would be an issue if the character had an article, but even if that were the case, the article could be called "Frieren (character)" like Inuyasha (character). Xexerss (talk) 16:16, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I understand, thanks. WillsEdtior777 (talk) 08:35, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Regarding the literal translation of the title

葬送のフリーレン, the use of の here is the same as its use in 大統領のブッシュ氏 which means "Mr. Bush, the President", not "Mr Bush at the President"
So how come the title translation became "Frieren at the Funeral"?
What's "at" in japanese is で or に, not の.
Fan translations of the manga should not be used as a reference, since many of those fan translators don't even understand basic Japanese and only translate using machine translation, in order to get donation money. Yorukusa777 (talk) 10:06, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Xexerss If you want to go literal then it would be "Frieren the Funeral" (without at), or "Frieren the Final Farewell to the Dead"
Not "Frieren at the Funeral"
It baffles me how such an absurd translation can stay there for so long. Yorukusa777 (talk) 10:14, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Yorukusa777: Now that I did a little more research, I've seen that many people don't agree with that translation as well. I think that "Frieren the Final Farewell to the Dead" sounds good. Now, I personally think that we could just link the word to Wikitionary and don't leave any translation to avoid conflict, but if you want to add that one, I think it's fine too. Xexerss (talk) 10:33, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

okay, done. :) Yorukusa777 (talk) 11:09, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

@Xexerss, @Yorukusa777, I changed the literal translation of the title to “Frieren the Sepulture”, since it’s shorter and I think cooler than the previous one, what do you think? Rekshaha (talk) 05:19, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I think that "Frieren, the Final Farewell to the Dead" is closer to the meaning of the original title. Xexerss (talk) 19:50, 26 December 2022 (UTC)

All character names are German

The charakter names are all German words which are reflecting the character.

For example "Heiter" means "cheerfull", "Fern" means "far/far away", "Stark" means strong.

Himmel" means "Heaven", and what is it about? Frieren (to freeze/to be cold) wants to meat Himmel in Heaven to talk with him. And look at Frieren, when it is cold. Heiter is always laughing. Draht skills with wies of magic while Draht litteraly translates to wire.

So, choosen these names for all charakters is no coincidence.

So why are my changes considered "unneeded". It might be unneeded, if this was only for the English translation, but in Hepburn the words Sound all like their German counterparts, and the German meaning always fits the character.

Here is a list:

• Frieren: to freeze, to be cold
• Fern: far, far away
• Stark: stron
• Himmel: Heaven
• Eisen: Iron
• Sein: to be
• Flamme: Flame
• Serie: Sequence
• Qual: Agony, pain
• Aura: aura, Charisma, and a backtranslation of the meaning "Ausstrahlung" also could mean "Anima"
• Lügner: Liar
• Line: Line
• Draht: Wire

German words are often used in Mangas and Animes. For example in the Phantom Bullet Arc of SAO Death Gun used the the German word "Sterben" as Name which means "Dying". 77.22.216.120 (talk) 08:33, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@77.22.216.120 sorry for misstyping, writing on a mobile with the App.

This should be the most crippled autocorrection: "Draht kills with wires... " 77.22.216.120 (talk) 08:36, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

That kind of information sounds interesting, but it rathers fall into WP:FANCRUFT and is irrelevant to the site's purposes. It's not our standard to include the literal translation of personal names of fictional characters. This kind of info more suitable for specific sites such as Fandom. Xexerss (talk) 08:47, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@Xexerss I thought a lot about it and came to the conclusion, to let it go.

Agree to disagree would be the right term.

While you considered this fancruft and not worth mentioning, I considered this a main conceptual part and therefor worth mentioning it.

So, as long as it is only the two of us, I do not want to start a discussion about it, that would definitiv not worth it.

Perhaps some others might say something about it or will came up with a different solution. 77.22.216.120 (talk) 08:56, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

It's common for manga to give meanings to character names but adding them will add nothing unless we were to find an interview where the writer explains them himself/herself. Tintor2 (talk) 14:00, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

I've added a single-line note to the top of #Characters to state that all the character names are German, similar to GochiUsa's edible naming theme. However, I agree that it's not necessary to put any name translation/meaning in the section unless it has significant plot relevance. In the case of GochiUsa, they're kept as significant trivia because they're puns rooted in English and their meanings are overt. Erik Humphrey (talk) 07:33, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Separate entry for Anime?

The anime has become very popular and has received plenty of coverage. We should consider a separate page for that. Manasbose (talk) 07:59, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

If there was enough coverage for a potential production section of the anime and a expanded reception section, it could be considered to make a split, but as it is now, I don't think it warrants a split yet. Xexerss (talk) 08:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

Links to the series' theme music

External videos
The first opening theme song "Yūsha"
The ending theme song "Anytime Anywhere"

To respond to the question from Xexerss in the edit summary, I deem the video of the theme music as part of "a legally distributed copy of the work," which is true as normally the opening and ending animation accounts for more one-tenth of the work in terms of length of time (a few minutes every episode). Therefore, according to WP:ELYES: "[a]n article about [...] some other media should link to a site hosting a legally distributed copy of the work [...]," I suggest the links to the articles as shown in the right. NinetyNineDragon (talk) 09:17, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

That doesn't mean that because we mention the title of the songs used in the series we need to post links to the videos of those songs. The MOS is not stating that is REQUIRED to add those links. The section merely mentions the titles and the artists of the songs, it is not analyzing nor describing them, so adding links to visualize these opening and ending videos doesn't provide the reader anything more significant than what is already mentioned there. Also, the article is about the series, and links to its official sites are already placed in the 'External links' section, it's not about its theme songs, which have their own articles. Xexerss (talk) 09:27, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

External videos
The first opening animation featuring "Yūsha"
The ending animation featuring "Anytime Anywhere"

While WP:EL is not part of the Manual of Style, "to visualize the work" is probably the biggest reason to add any links for any media with visual portion. To avoid any confusion, please let me clarify: why I suggest to add these link is not to "visualize these themes" but to "visualize (part of) the anime series itself", so our discussion should not be relevant to what you mentioned like "the titles and the artists of the songs". I did mention I deem the videos as part of work above.

Besides, it is explicitly stated in WP:EL that "use of templates like {{external media}}, which is used only when non-free and non-fair use media cannot be uploaded to Wikipedia" as an exception of putting the links in the body of the article. NinetyNineDragon (talk) 09:46, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

The template is used to contextualize the information provided to the reader. As I said before, the section is merely mentioning those songs and artists. Adding links to visualize the opening and ending doesn't contribute anything significant to the reader beyond what is mentioned in the section. The article already includes a link to the official anime website if they need to know more details about the adaptation. Xexerss (talk) 09:58, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

People can easily find those links by themselves. On the other hand, if you make an article about the soundtrack in general backed up by notable sources, I guess examples can be used. At least I've seen video game articles about music like Final Fantasy VII's putting example of songs like the One Winged Angel. Tintor2 (talk) 16:04, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Banning of doujinshi

@Xexerss: I rarely find these type of articles like in Kuroko's Basketball, but is this banning of doujinshi worth mentioning in Wikipedia? Cheers.Tintor2 (talk) 02:54, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure. Maybe we should wait and see if this gets more coverage. Compared to Kuroko's case, it seems like that controversy was more buzzed. Xexerss (talk) 03:07, 11 February 2024 (UTC)

Best selling manga

The lede currently says that "the manga [has] over 20 million copies in circulation, making it one of the best-selling manga series of all time". If the claim about "best selling manga" is only based upon the number of copies, it might be original research. The link to the List of best-selling manga is nice. However, since the cutoff limit for inclusion is chosen by Wikipedia editors, inclusion in the list does not justify the claim, by WP:CIRC. (I notice that there are about two hundred mangas that have sold better according to the list.) The claim itself is rather exceptional ("one of the best-selling manga series of all time"), so we would need good sourcing to justify it. (WP:EXCEPTIONAL and WP:ACCLAIMED are tangentially relevant). —St.Nerol (talk, contribs) 11:10, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok. Sounds fair to me. I reverted your edit because the sentence "making it one of the best-selling manga series of all time" is usually included in the lead of the series included in the list, but looking at it more objectively, perhaps something more is needed to support the statement than simply having reached 20 million copies. Xexerss (talk) 11:21, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

So do you think the version where "best selling" is removed, but the link to the list remains through the sales figure, can be restored? Or do you prefer some other solution? —St.Nerol (talk, contribs) 11:25, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

I think your edit was fine, so I will simply revert my last edit. Xexerss (talk) 11:28, 26 March 2024 (UTC)