Talk:Forty Hill

Capel Manor

Hello. Isn't Capel Manor part of Bulls Cross ? I've noticed the article Capel Manor College have used the Bulls Cross address . Do you think Capel Manor should be a separate article ?. Northmetpit (talk) 11:27, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree (that it's Bulls Cross). I nearly removed it on my major edit recently but thought I'd await any local reaction to that lot. Pterre (talk) 20:23, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Pterre. Thanks for reply. I've wrote a few lines on Capel Manor. However, I've noticed that Myddelton House and Capel Manor have different postcodes- bit confusing. Cheers Northmetpit (talk) 13:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

It's worse than that: according to my oldish street atlas, EN1, EN2 and EN7 meet at the junction of Bull's Cross Lane and Bullsmoor Lane, so you can play postcode hopscotch outside the pub (makes a change from the postcode lottery). The boundary of EN1 and EN2 runs down Bulls Cross Lane so Myddelton House is EN2 but Turkey St is EN1, while the southern edge of EN7 runs along the east end of Whitewebbs Lane, down the north end of Bulls Cross Lane and then along Bullsmoor Lane, so Capel Manor is on the cut off corner of EN7. Pterre (talk) 16:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hi Pterre Thanks for the info. Still confused though. Cheers. Northmetpit (talk) 10:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

External links modified

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Geology section

Hello.

I would like to suggest a substantial re-write of the Geology section in the Forty Hill article. It would be along the following lines. All comments and criticisms welcome.

Diagram illustrating the geology, and formation as an isolated hill, of Forty Hill, Enfield, UK.

Geology (and hill formation) (new title)

Sources for the material in this section are listed below .

The hill which gives its name to the district lies to the north of the built-up area and is mainly occupied by Forty Hall and its grounds. It rises to a small plateau around 50 metres (160 ft) above sea level. This plateau is capped by Boyn Hill Gravel, a deposit laid down by the River Lea during cold climate conditions approximately 400,000 years ago, when that river lay further to the west, and at a higher altitude, than it does today.

At Boyn Hill time, the area where Forty Hill is today was actually in the bottom of the valley of the southward-flowing River Lea. The Boyn Hill gravel was deposited there, along a line linking Bulls Cross to Forty Hill, Bush Hill, Palmers Green and beyond, to the River Thames.

Also at Boyn Hill time, two of the Lea's tributaries, Cuffley Brook and Turkey Brook, flowed from higher ground to the north-west, cutting through pre-glacial sand and gravel and glacial till. They joined the Lea at points not far away from each other, north and south of where Forty Hall is today, at what is now an altitude of c50m.

Then the River Lea moved steadily towards the east. And, as a contour map shows, the two brooks each extended eastwards with the Lea, but stayed apart. The Lea and the two brooks cut down into the London Clay (to a today's altitude of c35m), thus defining the north, east and south sides of what was becoming Forty Hill.

Rose and Crown Public House, Clay Hill, Enfield - geograph.org.uk

The brooks approached each other quite closely either side of Beggars Hollow (close to where, today, the Rose and Crown public house is located on Clay Hill). The dividing line between them was thus lowered by erosion at that point.

During further cold climate periods, the Lea laid down Taplow Gravel, east and south of Forty Hill. That was followed by Brickearth, a partially wind-blown deposit.

Later, the Lea moved further east to its present line, well away from Forty Hill, cutting down to a today's altitude of c20m at Waltham Abbey.

The low point between Turkey Brook and Cuffley Brook at Beggars Hollow was breached, probably in the relatively recent geological past. The Turkey Brook thus changed its course, there to go through a water gap (that is, a gap which, in this case, has been "formed through...erosion of two streams on opposite sides of a ridge, ultimately resulting in the capture of one stream by the other"). As a result, the Turkey Brook joined the Cuffley Brook, in Whitewebbs Park, thus defining the western edge of Forty Hill and isolating it from higher ground to the west.

East of the junction of Turkey Brook and Cuffley Brook, the stream is now known as Turkey Brook - and also locally as Maidens Brook.

The brooks subsequently cut down a little further - to below c30m - and alluvium was deposited in the beds of the brooks in Hilly Fields, in Whitewebbs Park, and in the Maidens Brook valley north of Forty Hall.

A dry, former stream channel at c30m was left, running just north of Clay Hill, from Beggars Hollow to a point close to today's junction of Clay Hill and Baker Street. That channel now defines the southern boundary of Forty Hill.

When the New River was built, it followed the 30m contour from Hertfordshire south towards London, down the Lea valley. But, in Enfield, the engineers who constructed it took the New River on a loop going west, to the north of Forty Hill, and then across Cuffley Brook near Flash Lane (and, later, across an aqueduct there). From that point, they took it south-east, through the water gap at Beggars Hollow, along the dry channel north of Clay Hill, and down to where Ladysmith Road is today. Then the New River continued on its southward course, towards Enfield Town.

The route (in blue) of the former "Whitewebbs loop" of the New River (from an information board at the Flash Lane aqueduct).

The New River was later straightened to flow southwards continuously, to the east of Forty Hill. An aqueduct was built for the New River to cross Turkey Brook near Maidens Bridge. This left the former course of the New River as it is today, curling through Whitewebbs Park, passing through Beggars Hollow and following the dry channel.

Alan Mattingly (talk) 16:07, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

The above draft, slightly modified, has now been included in the article itself.

Alan Mattingly (talk) 12:38, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

References