Talk:Felix Salzer

Jewish

Technically, Felix Salzer was not Jewish. I was a student in one of his classes and he said this to us directly. His father (Max Salzer) was Jewish, his mother was not. -- kosboot (talk) 20:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Felix Salzer was also the son of a jewish mother: Helene Wittgenstein, the sister of Paul Wittgenstein, Ludwig Wittgenstein and Margaret Stonborough-Wittgenstein (for all these mentioned siblings exists the category Austrian Jews in en:wp). Her jewish parents: Karl Wittgenstein and Leopoldine Kallmus. Leopoldine Kallmus, born March 14, 1850 in Vienna, a gifted pianist, comes from a jewish family in Prague; see de:wp “Karl heiratete 1873 Leopoldine Kallmus (* 14. März 1850 in Wien), eine begabte Pianistin, die aus einer Prager jüdischen Familie stammte.”

For Felix Salzer exists entries in

• Lexikon der Juden in der Musik, 1940 and
• Handbuch österreichischer Autorinnen und Autoren jüdischer Herkunft 18. bis 20. Jahrhundert. Vol. 3. Ed.: Österreichische Nationalbibliothek, Wien. Edited by Susanne Blumesberger, Michael Doppelhofer, Gabriele Mauthe. K. G. Saur, München 2002, ISBN 3-598-11545-8.
  -- Walter Anton (talk) 02:42, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

By your reasoning, all Europeans should be Jewish because statisticians have said that it's impossible for anyone not to be related to Jews from Medieval times. The 1940 Lexikon is a work of Nazis and is discredited by nearly all bibliographies. I would think that the 2002 Handbuch contains information based on that. Certainly Salzer himself didn't consider himself Jewish. So that gets to the question of who is a Jew, which Wikipedia tries not to answer. Karl Wittgenstein and his wife were the ones who converted away from Judiasm. Halachically, their descendents are Jews even though the individuals themselves would never have thought of themselves as such. The current members of the Wittgenstein family do not consider themselves Jewish. So are you saying that we should ignore what the subjects say and put categories on themselves they never embraced? -- kosboot (talk) 23:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

I edited the article without any prejudice; sources for the entry in the “Handbuch”:

• Strauss, Herbert A.; Röder, Werner (Ed.). International Biographical Dictionary of Central European Emigrés 1993–1945 , vol. 2, Munich, New York, London, Paris 1983, ISBN 3-598-10089-2.
• Bibliographica Judaica. Verzeichnis jüdischer Autoren deutscher Sprache, ed. Renate Heuer, Frankfurt/M., New York 1982–1988.
• Vertriebene Vernunft. Emigration und Exil österreichischer Wissenschaft 1930–1940, ed. Franz Stadler, Vienna, Munich 1987.
• Vor fünfzig Jahren. Die Emigration deutschsprachiger Wissenschaftler 1933–1939, ed. Peter Körner, Münster 1983.
• Pass, Walter; Scheit, Gerhard; Svoboda, Wilhelm. Orpheus im Exil. Die Vertreibung der österreichischen Musik 1938–1945. Vienna 1995.
• Musik im Exil. Folgen des Nazismus für die internationale Musik, ed. Maurer-Zenk, Claudia; Heister, Hans-Werner; Petersen, Peter; Frankfurt/M. 1993.

-- Walter Anton (talk) 13:01, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

You don't get my point. What you're showing is that all the German language sources go back to Moser, whereas nothing in English confirms that he was Jewish or thought of himself as Jewish. -- kosboot (talk) 13:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

Everything I can find on Felix Salzer's maternal great-grandmother, Marie Stallner, indicates that she wasn't Jewish, by ancestry or religion - see this. That would make Salzer non-Jewish by Jewish law, and it seems he wasn't by religion either. All Hallow's Wraith (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2011 (UTC) ....As grandson of Margaret Stonborough-Wittgenstein, I grew up knowing Felix Salzer and my grandmother and Paul Wittgenstein in New York and later Hermine W. and Helene W in Austria. All would have been astonished to be referred to as Jewish. They were not in any sense (but a Nazi one!)of the word. Neither was Ludwig W., so where does this debate come from? Pierre Stonborough — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.115.138.145 (talk) 08:27, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

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