Talk:Escalante, Utah

local pronunciation

(excerpted from this userpage discussion thread)

… I'd be quite surprised if it's actually /ˈɛskɛlæni/ with two full, unreduced /ɛ/s. That would mean that the /kɛl/ has the same so-called "secondary stress" as the /læn/, giving it an artificial-sounding, rather staccato rhythm, almost as if it were an acronym "Es-Kell-Lanny". I can't think of any English word which does this. Are you sure it's not /ˈɛskɨlæni/, with a reduced a? kwami (talk) 06:00, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

It's true that, in English, shwa-ness and reduced-ness are generally thought of as going together … it's conventional to use ə when the vowel is unstressed … reasonable to infer the inverse: that ɛ implies stress … [you] read /ˈɛskɛlæni/ as essentially a shorthand for /ˈɛsˌkɛ.ˌlæni/. But it is possible to have an unstressed unreduced vowel, and that is what I claim for the second vowel of this particular pronunciation of "Escalante".

There are languages where this isn't unusual … [in English] you get it now and then … completely speculatory, but the historical Spanish influence on the American West might have something to do with people from Utah being able to say [ɛskɛ] without stressing the second ɛ…) … The problem then is how to transcribe the IPA in a way that won't trick phoneticians. As far as I know, there's no way to overtly mark lack of stress on a vowel … is there? — eitch 17:49, 8 July 2009

Actually, there's no such thing as "secondary stress" in English. When a dictionary marks a vowel for secondary stress, and it occurs later in the word that the primary stress, what that means is that the vowel is an unstressed but unreduced vowel. When it's not marked for secondary stress, then it's a reduced vowel, though not necessarily a schwa. (Webster's does this, the OED does not. When "secondary" stress occurs before the primary stress, then it's actually primary, but isn't as strong when the word is spoken in isolation.) "/ˈɛskɛlæni/" would seem to cover your description: stressed-unreduced-unreduced-reduced. kwami (talk) 22:26, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

See the original thread for fully-fledged arguments, but leave responses here. — eitch 19:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

First a quick clarification re: "not nec. a ə": I meant 'it's conventional to use ə when the vowel which if stressed would be ɛ is unstressed' (I just couldn't think of any clear way to say it ;)

People not familiar with the discussions about stress in English might want to look at "Secondary stress" (permalink to article as of 9 November 2024) — saying "there's no such thing" as it is awfully strong. Still, theoretical arguments about why it's possible to have an unstressed ɛ (does English have secondary stress or not, etc) don't really matter here.

If any grad student's proposed a way of overtly marking lack of stress, I'd still be interested to see it! — eitch 19:54, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Escalante, Utah. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://www.webcitation.org/6YSasqtfX?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.census.gov%2Fprod%2Fwww%2Fdecennial.html to http://www.census.gov/prod/www/decennial.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 04:49, 26 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Escalante, Utah. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.census.gov/prod/www/decennial.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101218235149/http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/blm/co/10/chap3.htm to http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/blm/co/10/chap3.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20161114034904/https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ut/grand_staircase-escalante/photos/gsenm_visitor_information.Par.44429.File.dat/GSENM_Brochure_map_%202016.jpg to https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ut/grand_staircase-escalante/photos/gsenm_visitor_information.Par.44429.File.dat/GSENM_Brochure_map_%202016.jpg

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:27, 23 September 2017 (UTC)