Talk:Equestrian vaulting

Untitled

Could someone that can read German please check the external links to the .de sites and make sure I have the sorted correctly.

Globalise

Why does the United States and the AVA need a separate section in this article? Couldn't all the relevant material have been included in a sentence or so in the History section? A separate section for one country only creates an unbalanced and arguably non-neutral POV. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Well, aside from the rest of the article being pretty Eurocentric, (grin)it's a fair point. I'll make some tweaks. Montanabw^(talk) 18:17, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, just moving the stuff around addressed the first point, but not the second. I've now removed the irrelevant material completely in order to maintain some kind of geographical impartiality. This is what was there:

"American vaulting can be traced to 1956, when Elizabeth Searle first saw the art during a visit to Europe. Seeing a potential application for her pony club in California's Santa Cruz County, she obtained a 16mm film of the basic exercises, and took it back to the US. In 1966, the American Vaulting Association (AVA) was founded by Searle and J. Ashton Moore, and in 1969, held the first official AVA competition at the Santa Cruz County fairgrounds in Watsonville, California. In 1974, US vaulters participating in the first international exchange in Stuttgart, Germany. Today the AVA has more than 1,000 members in 100 AVA clubs and affiliates from Hawaii to Massachusetts, and Washington to Florida. Originally focused solely on competitive vaulting, the AVA today has programs for all types of vaulters, from recreational and pony club vaulters to therapeutic vaulters, from beginner to world championship levels."

With proper references, and after checking factual accuracy (was there really no voltige in American circus acts before 1956?), it might find a place in a much-needed article on Equestrian sports in the United States, where this level of detail would be entirely appropriate. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:00, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Still on the general topic of regionality, please note the establishment of European spelling conventions (i.e., British English) at the creation of the article. Bizarrely, this means that the charming US usage of French terms for lunge and lunger is incorrect here. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:00, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Given the few refs throughout the article, I trimmed the US bit down to one sentence of what is probably correct info and added it to another paragraph. Doesn't seem undue, given all the attention the Germans get. I noted hat the FEI changed from "longe" to "lunge" in 2009. They will be the standard to which I defer. As for the rest, that Americans preserve the older traditional spelling is an irony which I am sure does not escape you. Montanabw^(talk) 00:57, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Dress Code

Hi. I noticed that the section for dress code has been changed, since my last version/edit, to something that resembles the content prior to my version.

I should note that the dress code section is not sourced. No evidence is given to support the argument that form-fitting uniforms are required.

To my best knowledge of the field, equestrian vaulting has no codified law sanctioning uniforms. It is very loose-based. Different clubs have their own standards and while it's true form-fitting uniforms are allowed and have been used, it does not conclusively suggest that it's the type of uniform required by law. Unless sources can back that statement, it makes no sense to have it mentioned. It's better just saying what I previously said in my old version, i.e. that vaulting has no commonly defined or accepted form of standardized wear. It's not like other sports. Vaulting is not as centralized as other sports, i.e. there really isn't a sort of 'governing body' that oversees details like dress codes. FEI is not strict like FIFA or FIBA, etc. It's more like FIA in the sense that it's loosely-based.

There also needs to be evidence suggesting that unitards are the most accepted standard wear. Most clubs I go to nowadays hardly have vaulters performing in unitards, unless they're stuck in the 80s. For the most part it's been done and dusted. I mostly see costumes, pants, etc. But in respect for the person who added that bit of information, although I highly disagree with its validity, I kept it in my version. But to have that information by itself, as it is right now, is extremely inaccurate.Alexvaulting (talk) 22:23, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Sources are always the solution, if you want to start putting in footnotes and refs, that's a VERY good idea. Ideally, a cite to the rule by number and with a URL to at least the rule book overview page is best. However, for an international sport like this one, starting with the FEI, which oversees all international sport, is needed, even if there's other folks who are involved. If other groups have significant influence, then their rules should also be cited and if there is some way to cite to a source, it helps to explain the unwritten rules (god knows every discipline has them, sometimes best to try and best to just avoid discussing fads altogether if they change frequently). All that said, I'm also a little worried about this article drawing a "globalize" tag if it's too US-centric, so helpful to keep that in mind. Montanabw^(talk) 23:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

---

Alexvaulting, you're definitely mistaken. Law does require formfitting wear and I will find the sources for it in a while and post them. By the way I also had my edit removed from my Voltismo account (forgot my old password so I created a new one lol). Yeah anyway I'll add the source for you. I remember reading FEI guidelines and they specifically said something about formfitting wear. It's part of the sport. But you are right about the trends. I also don't see much of spandex unitards these days. Looking at the view history edits, you should see that I agree with the independent German study you mentioned (the only German study about this if we're on the same track), although you got your figures slightly varied up/down. The use of unitards today is 46%. It's still almost half, hardly the 35% figure range which you implied in one of your edits, which by the way wasn't mentioned in the German article. And I'll try to find its source as well to clarify this. But do remember this is an independent study and there are tons in Europe, and their main job is fabric trends, so not everything they say is entirely accurate. Having said that, based on my own first hand experience, I can safely say as a trainer that I see a lot less spandex unitards worn today than 10 or 20 years ago. Speaking of which, there was one article I once read about the Jordanian lady who currently presides FEI. In one of her interviews posted on a website she said that rule changes on vaulting are subject to change sometime in 2012 or 2014 (can't remember which year), and that the new rule amendments will include changes made to dress codes. Rumors flying around about her wanting to officially remove formfitting from the dress code, since unitards are uneconomical these days and don't fit into her plans. Meaning she's opening the prospect for any type of clothing to be used in future vaulting, rather than just unitards. If this is true, I would personally embrace it. The more the merrier. In the meantime they're just rumors, mind you. So it beats me. If these changes really will happen, then there's no point mentioning the source for the current rules in the first place. I'll let you decide with the article. But if you want, I can find the most important sources for you now, which is the current rules at the very least. :))) Voltismo1 (talk) 17:34, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Folks, I will monitor this and request that you both learn to use "ref" tags properly so anyone can directly verify whatever you put up by going to the specific source (i.e. rule book, url, ideally with rule # and year) As long as you source things properly, including discussions of differing points of view, I'll be happy. And I do recommend that the FEI rules be the base, as every nation has variations. Montanabw^(talk) 00:32, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I edited the reference to the current version of the FEI rules. And I quote: "713.2.7. Dress must be formfitting..." --Stigdaniel (talk) 11:06, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

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