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Talk:Eastern cougar

CT Cougar killedEdit

MergeEdit

Probably don't merge.
This article is about the eastern cougar, including, extensively, the question of whether it actually existed.

Either as an actual subspecies or merely as long-established (though now uncertain???) taxonomic category, it was or continues, separate from non-eastern cougars.

That's why they're called "eastern" cougars.
There is of course, a certain amount of confusion about all this among the public, but merging the articles wouldn't be helpful in this regard.
The other article may have shortcomings, but can serve as at least a placeholder for something of its sort.

Calamitybrook (talk) 19:39, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

  • Don't merge per Calamitybrook. There is a taxonomic question, which without definitive sources it wouldn't be appropriate to intermingle the articles.
    ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 06:00, 3 July 2011 (UTC)
Don't merge 7&6=thirteen () 02:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)


Merge. Either wikipedia is an organ of science, or not. The variations of the North American cougar - including the Eastern and the Florida Panther should be noted (no-one is suggesting deletion), but they should be noted in the appropriate place, based on science, not sentiment. The correct place - so far as I can tell (I'm no expert) is North American Cougar. Heenan73 (talk) 12:25, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Illinois Cougar Hit By AmtackEdit

Wasn't an cougar hit by an Amtrak in the forest in Southern IL S of St. Louis recently? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brechbill123 (talkcontribs) 22:04, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Quotes Autopsy report of cougar hit by Amtrak train in 2000 7&6=thirteen () 22:38, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I do find these on-going news reports very interesting indeed, and great on talk page. Thanks very much for the info. But I don't think they are relevant to the larger thrust of the article, which does refer generically (and adequately, I think) to thousands of such reports.
The several theories that may account for these reports are fully represented in current version of the article.
Those theories are, of course, A) the persistence of a native population of cougars in the region, whether of "eastern" subspecies or otherwise, and B) migration of individual "western" cougars, of distinct subspecies or otherwise, and/or (B2 theory) escaped captives.
Also I guess, a fourth possibility is also somewhat covered; that migrant cougars from the west have recently established a viable breeding population in former range of "eastern subspecies" or non-subspecies, as the case may be.
Maybe this needs to be expressed more clearly, and I think it is reasonable to assume this will happen at some point, but I haven't any usable source suggesting that this is known to be already the case.
We've definitely covered the idea that some people do currently believe this to be true.

Calamitybrook (talk) 04:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Cougar hit by auto in Milford, Conn., was said by state (via NYT article today) to have originated in Dakotas. Interesting. I mention this NOT for inclusion in article but just FYI.
Reporter chose to quote state spokesman fairly extensively to the effect that (in his opinion, apparently) there are no native or breeding populations of cougar in Connecticut. Nothing about Central Park or Jersey though.

Calamitybrook (talk) 13:46, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

May I reiterate my view that trying to mention in this article, every cougar sighting and road kill is counter-productive and also, ultimately, not possible.

Calamitybrook (talk) 16:40, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Ditto the Greenwich, Conn., item.
Certainly is interesting to me.
But it's not relevant to the "eastern cougar" subspecies. There is no source to suggest otherwise.
Nothing. Isn't related to this article, according to any available source.
Shouldn't be there!!!
Am not going to do more than make this here note.

Calamitybrook (talk) 01:32, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

Moved it to a footnote. 7&6=thirteen () 11:35, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

CryptozoologyEdit

Should this really be categorized as crypotozoology? I understand it is debated whether they're genetically different from other North American cougars, but I'd hardly group them up with Bigfoot and Nessie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.182.48 (talk) 10:33, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

As the animal is not listed with those, I have removed it.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 14:25, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Reference removed again; it is irrelevent, innaccurate, unscientific and probably mischievous; there is no reason for it to be here - looks like there's a troll in the house! Heenan73 (talk) 12:41, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Technically by definition it would fit into cryptozoology in that outside florida mountain lions are basically extinct. cryptzoology even encompses populations that are "alien" to a location. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Raifu (talkcontribs) 20:04, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

First sentence illogicalEdit

The article begins with "Eastern cougar (Puma concolor couguar) is considered by many puma biologists to be a subspecies of the North American cougar" This is of course wrong, as the North American cougar (Puma concolor couguar) is a subspecies of the cougar (Puma concolor). So either Eastern cougar is the same subspecies as P. c. cougar, then the articles must be merged or the first sentence is wrong as there is never a subspecies of a subspecies. FelixReimann (talk) 14:37, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Interesting point. Got a source for that position? 7&6=thirteen () 00:50, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

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Both links failed. 7&6=thirteen () 02:42, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Why 'deemed "extinct" (sic)'?Edit

"Sic" is not correct if the author means to imply that they might not be extinct, as the article is quoting indirectly someone else's judgment. --Richardson mcphillips (talk) 20:19, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

agree. I killed it.Shajure (talk) 04:48, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
I do see their argument... current thinking is that there never were any "eastern cougars"... there were just cougars that lived in the east. Thus, they weren't "extinct", they were "extirpated"... if current thinking is correct. In the purest sense it might somehow be appropriate to beat up the feds for using the wrong word. But they aren't. If there ever was a subspecies, it is extinct. So either we should kill the article and redirect, or it is ok to say "extinct".Shajure (talk) 04:56, 5 March 2017 (UTC)
I gave P1 a go to offer both views.Shajure (talk) 05:01, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

Good. Richardson mcphillips (talk) 02:45, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

The article is here because Eastern cougars existed, whether or not they are extinct, extirpated or continue to exist. I have seen them in Michigan, up close and personal, even though the Michigan Department of Natural Resources continues to say they don't exist. I did not get close enough to get a DNA sample, and he/she did not give me a calling card or a travel ticket. They are not synonomous with or totally subsumed in the word "Cougar." 7&6=thirteen () 03:33, 7 March 2017 (UTC)
I didn't get a poop sample, either. The DNR apparently thinks the easiest way to regulate them is to deny their existence. 7&6=thirteen () 17:42, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

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Leo1pard (talk) 17:23, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

TaxonomyEdit

I don't understand what distinction is being drawn with "however" in the following paragraph:

The 2005 edition ... followed Culver's recommendations. ... However, [related web sites] continued to maintain the Puma concolor couguar (both western and eastern cougars) as a subspecies of Puma concolor.

I don't see the difference between recognising all as one subspecies (Culver's recommendation, in previous paragraph) and (here) maintaining them as a subspecies instead!? Can anyone clarify the page's wording for general readers like me? - Egmonster (talk) 18:27, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

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