Talk:Dreaming of You (Selena album)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Fair use rationale for Image:Dreamingofyou1.jpg

Image:Dreamingofyou1.jpg is being used the article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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Quotations

I have added some quotations that I do not know if its a violation of any rules, so if you do find that it is please tell me and I will immediately remove it from this article. Thank you. AJona1992 (talk) 13:36, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Charts

I am not sure if this (the last one) is notable for inclussion?

Date	Chart	Peak position	References
August 5, 1995	Billboard 200	1
	Billboard Latin Albums	1
	Billboard Latin Pop Albums	1
November 18, 1995	UU-BRU Radio playlist	39

If it is I'll place it in the article, AJona1992 (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Studio album revert

I understand that Dreaming of You, when released, had six unreleased songs of Selena and was entitled to be a studio album, however, the album was released after her death and included previously released songs, which does not qualify for a studio album only release. If the album was a studio (only) album, then the singer would have been alive, finished recording, and promoted the album worldwide. Unfortunately, she was murdered, so I'm going to, for the last time, revert the last revision which was changed by User:Chelo61 at 21:13 on 24 December 2010. If anyone rejects this change, then please note your reasons on why the album should be named only for a studio album. Thanks, AJona1992 (talk) 22:50, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Dreaming of You is counted as a Selena studio album. It isn't like Mis Primeros Éxitos, Personal Best or Ones which are greatest hits. Chelo61 (talk) 01:46, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the album is considered "half" a studio album (new tracks) and a greatest hits album (old tracks remastered). Your right on that note, but there's no album in the world that is considered a studio album with majority or minority of the album with old tracks on their albums. So that's why I and someone else had put "is the final studio album and second complication album by Selena" and on the template highlighted because, fans alike and critics states their description upon that note. AJona1992 (talk) 03:46, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dreaming of You (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: BelovedFreak 12:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   At a glance, sources look reliable, although I have not checked extensively. There are, however, some dead links.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   Not assessed yet

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   Not assessed yet

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Can't see any problems here

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Image looks fine, some discrepancies with audio file

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

The biggest problem I can see with this article is that it's not written well enough for GA standard. It desperately needs a copyedit by someone uninvolved with the article to improve the prose. I will give some examples of problems below, but this is just a sample.

Examples of prose issues

Lead

• "The album incorporates slow and mid-tempo R&B ballads and pop songs, while the rest of the album incorporates Latin-inflected grooves."
• "...making her the first Latin singer to accomplish this feat..." - I'm not an expert on US music, and I find this a little unclear. Was she the first Hispanic singer to do this? The first singing in Spanish to do it? The first singing music classified as "Latin pop" to do it?
• "Critics received the album with mixed to positive reviews with many of them stating that Dreaming of You was not Selena's peak as an artist, while stating that her previous record, Amor Prohibido, is a more consistent release that it was an effective introduction, and showed why she was adored by Tejano fans alike."

Production

• "Behar's request for a major crossover was denied and was told that in order to sell a major record, Selena needed a bigger fan base." - this is a bit confusing, I'm not really sure who is saying what to whom
• "EMI Latin's purpose for the crossover album was said that Selena reached her peak in the Spanish language market and wanted to propel Selena into mainstream stardom as an American solo pop artist."
• "Selena was questioned by many of her fans and interviewers about the album's release date after Selena released, Amor Prohibido, Selena stated to her fans and interviews that the album is still being developed."
• "Selena stated that she told numerous interviewers that her album is going to be released and Selena bolted in tears as she exclaimed that she has not even recorded one song for the album, the statement enraged Jose Behar and said that Selena was right and told EMI Records that Selena and her band, Los Dinos are going to "walk" and find a different record company who are willing to record an English language album for Selena, which EMI Records did not want to happen."
• "...major Pop music producers..."
• "Recordings for the album were in contrast from what she usually sings."

Composition

• "For the song, "I'm Getting Used to You", Selena worked with Baroque pop and Dream pop, the song talks about Selena being in a relationship that she did not used to, and is now getting the hang of being with that person who she is in dying need of."
• "Originally the album was going to enlist more English language tracks during the morning hours of March 31, 1995, while being scheduled to appear at her fathers recording studio to record another song called "Oh No (I'll Never Fall in Love Again)", Selena was shot to death by her best friend and employee for Selena's boutiques, Yolanda Saldivar."

Personnel

• "(main and back-up vocalist, composer, and ideal)" - what does ideal mean here?

There are also problems with:

• overlinking throughout of common words (eg. sleeping, hands, angel, bronze, golden etc.) and repeated links (eg. pop and rock)
• links to disambiguation pages (including some of the overlinked words). You also need to check links that don't go to disambiguation pages to make sure they go where you expect. For example, white paper.
• improper capitalisation of common nouns
• MOS errors, such as website titles being in italics (WP:ITALICS), inconsistency in reference formatting (this isn't a GA issue as long as WP:V is met)
• In the Album charts table, one column is headed Year, but you list a full date in that column
• In the singles charts table, how is the New Zealand chart position verifiable?
• The bottom table on the page appears to be broken somehow
• The audio sample is 31 seconds long, the summary describes it as being 34 seconds long, the rationale claims that it is no longer than 30 seconds long.
• Dead external links

I don't feel I can perform a comprehensive review until the prose has been rewritten. I'll put the review on hold to allow that to happen. --BelovedFreak 12:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Will begin tomorrow. I will try my best to address the issues I can do. The copyedit, I don't know how to do yet, if you can get someone to help me then that would be much appreciated thank you. AJona1992 (talk) 00:13, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi AJona1992, sorry I just noticed this message. You could put in a request at the Guild of Copy Editors, or ask another editor that you have worked with before perhaps. I'm not sure what else to suggest.--BelovedFreak 15:26, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

Ok, clearly there's not much happening here. I can't list the article like this, so the nomination has not been successful. Would recommend a copyedit and perhaps peer review before a further nomination. --BelovedFreak 16:48, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

Well I'm going to try. People on Wikipedia are here only to judge and pretend to run this place, rather then helping someone. AJona1992 (talk) 19:32, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Change of thought, I had a bad experience with them because they took 5 years just to look over an article and say "it needs help", like I said Wikipedia is not how it used to be, no one here wants to help anyone anymore. lolz AJona1992 (talk) 19:34, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

Prose errors

I have corrected the prose errors specified in the failed GA review, even though I notice that there are still more errors in the article that need to be fixed. Anyone who notices this please feel free to fix the remaining errors. Bulldog ^{edit my talk page da contribs review me} 06:22, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I have expanded the article further, saving your work along with it. If the prose errors have been addressed, is the article ready to be nominated for a featured article? AJona1992 (talk) 16:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

I spotted and fixed some minor errors in the article, but it is not ready yet. Bulldog ^{edit my talk page da contribs review me} 22:24, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for at least helping out! All the help you have done makes a big difference though :) Take care, AJona1992 (talk) 22:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

New certifications

Selena's father Abraham Quintanilla, Jr. was given three plaques, one including, Dreaming of You being certified 3x Diamond by the RIAA. These plaques were given to him during the unveiling of the new Selena postage stamps. Is there any way of adding this on the article, since theres not a reliable source, at the present time? AJona1992 (talk) 23:02, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Resolved at WT:IRS. AJona1992 (talk) 05:19, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

What Needs To Be Done

1. Copy-edit the entire article
2. Fix and expand lead per WP:Lead and fourth peer review.
3. Fix all references in correct formats, retrieve dates and properly fix inconsistent dates.
4. Remove some wikilinks per WP:OVERLINK and fourth peer review.
5. Somehow, try to make the sections "Release" and "Singles" different from each other, per fourth peer review.
6. Try to expand the "Promotion" section more with commercials that were released, shirts, bootlegs controversy and other merchandise that were sold in Mexico and in Texas.
7. Expand the commercial reception section with "Chart performance" of the album.
8. Expand the critical reception section with newspapers and magazines.
9. Merge all three track listings together.
10. Fix the "Personnel" section similar to other FA-Class Album articles.
11. Add more certifications from secondary sources found.
12. Expand the "Further reading" section with books and magazines and properly spell all authors names per WP:MOS.
13. Try and search on Wikipedia or Commons for free content that could be included in the article.
14. Try to figure out if File:Selena - Only Love.ogg is really needed in the article, per fourth peer review.
15. Get the article copy edited at WP:GOCE.
16. Nominate the article for WP:FA status.
17. Complete.

Did what I can do, AJona1992 (talk) 05:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

GOCE copyedit August 2011

Hi

During the copyedit some things came to light that may need attention:

Lead

• "As of 2007 the album has sold over 12 million copies." - any chance of an updated figure?

Yes. RIAA issued the album 3x Diamond (30 million) during the unveiling of the new United States stamps featuring Selena. The only proof is a picture that was taken with her family holding the plaques. I asked if I can cite it but when I asked at WT:IRS and told them that Billboard nor RIAA updated any information about it, they said it was best to just not worry about it since there was no print source.

Production and development

• "Behar and Stephen Finfer requested Selena for a major crossover album." - needs clarifying, did they request her to do one or were they asking someone else? Perhaps, "Behar and Stephen Finfer requested that Selena be allowed to make a major crossover album."

Jose and Stephen sent a request for Selena to begin her crossover album.

• "after less than twenty-four hours in Los Angeles." - is this relevant, and if so what is special about "less than 24 hours"?

Was this about her signing a contract? If so, then kinda. EMI Records really didn't feel that Selena would be of "crossover potential" and when Jose lied about her and her band leaving for a new record deal, they didn't want that to happen and she was signed within a day.

Production and development

• "Highly because, SBK knew what they were doing for a crossover event" - does not really make any sense. The preceding sentence is talking about her only being allowed to choose one song. The ref is quoted as being the album notes, perhaps someone can check them.

Selena's brother stated that he felt the reason why Selena wasn't allowed to pick more songs was because SBK had done crossover deals before with John Secada and the Barrio Boyzz.

• "included Keith Thomas, Trey Lorenz of Epic Records, Mark Goldenberg, Kit Hain, Guy Roche, Donna Delorey, Diane Warren, Rhett Lawrence, David Byrne of Luaka Bop Inc., Franne Golde, Tom Snow, Full Force, Brian "Red" Moore, A.B. Quintanilla III, Barrio Boyzz, K.C. Porter, Felipe Bernmejo, Jose Hernandez and Felipe Valdes Leal." - that seems more like a full listing rather than "including" which would probably only have a few of them in it.

This is a list of producers, composers and back-up singers.

• "her vocals were later used in the song after Byrne recorded it in Clifton, New York" - needds clarifying. Did Byrne record her vocals and the song in Clifton? If not, where did they come from? and how could she have sung in time if the song was not yet recorded?

Byrne recorded the song first in Clifton, New York. Selena later recorded her part in Corpus Christi.

• "Keith Thomas stated that every ..." - who is he?

The composer for "I Could Fall in Love".

• "... every time Selena would walk in the recording studio that all eyes would be on her due to her energy and eager to succeed, who made everyone laugh." - needs the original quote looking at. All eyes would not be on her because of her eagerness, perhaps quoting directly would be best.

Will do.

Composition

• "The album was compared to a transition marketing point-of-view and a creative point-of-view." - One cannot compare an album to "a transition marketing point-of-view, and certainly not "The album was compared to ... a creative point-of-view" I am not sure what was meant here, perhaps "The album was aimed at being a transitional-marketing tool and a creative transition". Once again quoteing directly from the source might be best.

Musical style and lyrics

• "Keith Thomas told reporters that Selena went to Wal-Mart to pick an outfit to record the song in, and that she also picked up some groceries—announcing that she was going to cook dinner for Thomas. When Selena arrived at Thomas' recording studio, Wynonna Judd was recording a song. Thomas then told a reporter that Selena came in asking if she could cook Judd dinner as well. When asked about Selena's personality, Thomas replied that Selena always respected his work and decisions, and that she was a team player." Not sure that this is entirely relevant to this article.
• "Among most played song" - not sure that this is an award, can someone check it? I can imagine it as "Most Played Song award.
• "Selena's vocal range spans four octaves one-lined with music notes F#3-A4," Not sure where this is going either, her vocal range cannot be one-lined.
• "wrote a biographical book based on Jennifer Lopez and Adult Contemporary" - something seems missing between "Loppez" and "and".
• "The song also featured on Greatest Love Songs of the 90's." - what is this? a book? magazine? album?
• "Byrne recorded his vocals to the song in his hometown in New York, while Selena recorded the rest of the song" - the rest of the song or the rest of the vocals?
• "who should be attending school.<ref name="imdb.com"/>" - I thought IMDB refs were not acceptable?
• "she was bit by a vampire" - is this someones translation? If it is then it should be corrected to "she was bitten by a vampire" - if not then it needs to be "she was bit [sic] by a vampire" so that people do not try and correct it.
• "while Selena's Spanish verse stood apparent" - not sure what this means at all.

Release

• "knocking off the Pocahontas (1995) soundtrack and Michael Jackson from the top spot" - how can they both have been on the top spot?

Singles

• ""El Toro Relajo" became the first single off Dreaming of You to be released in Mexico" - when? is the following date the date they were both released?

Commercial performance

• "Eventually Selena became the first recording artist to place five Spanish-language albums simultaneously on the Billboard 200." This has nothing to do with this album though, does it?
• "Musicland, the nation's largest chain," - which nation?
• "In the week following its release, Dreaming of You sold 120,000 copies followed by 40,000 copies." - what exactly does this mean? Is this a total of 160,000 in the first week?

Chart performance

• ""Dreaming of You" also debuted at number one on the Billboard 200 for two weeks," - needs a check that this is the single being talked about. Everything in that paragraph, both before and after it, is talking about the album.

Critical response

• "Stephen Erlewine, who reviewed the album," - reviewed it for who?
• "captured Selena stepping from her Tejano roots into today's world of pop" -another direct copyvio.
• Diatonic set theory has nothing to do with these tracks; Rothenberg proprietary is about coherence of the music, while the article quoted is talking about coherence by the listener - in other words, whether the listener can tell what she is singing, or can hear what she is singing.
• I have removed the copyvios from the first four paragraphs but someone else will have to do the last three paragraphs, as I cannot give the amount of time needed. I have spent some two hours on that section alone trying to identify and fix the copyvios.

Artwork

• "The styles around Selena illustrate as if she were an angel in the stars, which also describes how the song "Dreaming of You" is mainly about." - this seems like WP:OR, needs a ref.

Use of styles

• "the artwork is seen entirely similar to the main album, unlike the main album." - not sure what this is trying to say. How can the main album be unlike the main album?

General

• There seems to be a few WP:COPYVIO]] and WP:PLAGIARISM in the "Musical style and lyrics" and "Critical response" sections. For example:
  • The article says: "is an energetic, dark and mysterious song that combines elements of the rumba flamenca with rock and R&B undertones"
  • Reference text is: "is an energetic, dark and mysterious song that combines elements of the rumba flamenca with rock, a pair of R&B flavored tunes"

This one was a direct copyvio from the billboard article:

• • ... captured Selena stepping from her Tejano roots into today's world of pop. p. 41

This one was a whole paragraph taken straight out of the article:

• "There are some obvious signs of superstardom; an original song written by Diane Warren (not one of Warren's more lyrical ones, however), the inevitable showcase ballads and of course the most obvious one: Trey Lorenz in the background of the first track. "I Could Fall In Love" is pop with a refreshing Tejano lacing, proving Amy Tan's words that "it's hip to be ethnic" [1]

These need to have quotation marks or be paraphrased so that they are not copyvio. In fact, the amount of work I have had to do to find and fix these quotation errors is ridiculous! In an article I had not worked on I would have marked it as "Copvio" with the copyvio template and reported it for copyvios - please make sure that all the others are fixed.

• IMDB is not a reliable source WP:RS
• A lead-single is the first off the album, there are only rare circumstances when two can be called the lead-single. THis is when they are released together on the same day, usually at the same time. In the article the two singles described as lead singles were released months apart. The double single, released two weeks after the lead-single, cannot be described as a lead either.
• "Anglo pop" - is a term that is relative to non-English speakers (Anglo pop being a neologism), this is the English wikipedia, so I find it strange that this should be present as the term here would just be "pop". Also it does not appear to be linked to anything.
• MoS recommends that linking within quotes is not recommended. WP:QUOTES "Items within quotations should not generally be linked; instead, consider placing the relevant links in the surrounding text or in the "See also" section of the article."

Thanks for copy-editing! Take care and enjoy, AJona1992 (talk) 21:43, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

"In an interview, Selena said was intimidated by" shouldn't it be "she was intimidated..."? AJona1992 (talk) 21:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes it should, Sorry about that  :¬) Chaosdruid (talk) 03:34, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

OK, Copyedit finished. If there are any outstanding problems, or things I have missed by all means get in touch with me. Make sure that you check for any further copyvios, as it will surely fail GA and FA if there are any left in there. Chaosdruid (talk) 03:34, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed Thanks for your copyediting :) AJona1992 (talk) 00:12, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Some review notes

I was asked to take a look at this article; here are some comments.

• I looked at the copyediting done in August; this significantly improved the article but I think the writing is still short of FA standards, though it might pass GA. A couple of examples:
  • Repetition of phrase in consecutive sentences: "... he wanted his children to be the first artists to sign with EMI Latin. Before signing with EMI Latin Records in 1989 ..."
  • "By 1993 Selena had won a Grammy Award for Selena Live! (1993), become a recipient of several accolades, ... , and expanding the "Tejano Movement" across the United States": should be "expanded".
  • "Highly because, SBK knew what they were doing for a crossover event": it's not clear what this is intended to mean, but "highly" can't be used to modify "because" in that way.

  I appreciate that you took the time to get someone from the guild of copyeditors to do some work on the article, and it really did help, but it does need more work, I'm afraid. Those examples are all from the first few paragraphs; there are others throughout the article.

• I haven't scanned all the sources, but the ones I looked at seem OK to me. You're using primary sources to source some information; I think that's OK in some cases, but for example [2] is used to source the statement that the Belgian release had a given radio add date and was released on CD. I don't see that information in the page that came up; is it sourced by one of the other sources you provide there? If I were reviewing this for FAC I would want to check that the information in those tables really is provided by those sources.

That source if from Belgium iTunes. Its to provide that DOY was released (digitally) in that country. Is that source ok for that?

I think it's OK for that purpose, but you also show a radio add date of July 18, 1995 for all countries, and I'm not sure where that's sourced from. It doesn't seem to be from the individual iTunes links. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I'll remove the unsourced dates. Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• The sections seem broadly right to me. I don't usually work on album articles, but I reviewed Maya (M.I.A. album) a while back so I compared it to that and I see no big discrepancies.
• I would recommend asking someone who has worked on an album article that has achieved FA status to take a look. If you offer to help out with an article they're working on that can encourage cooperation; just something to consider.
• The article contains a remarkable amount of detail. I tend to like adding details to articles, but you are likely to find some pushback for some of the more esoteric information. For example, the personnel section contains the names of assistant engineers, translators, and art directors -- are these really of interest to readers looking for information about the album? Similarly, the critical response section is exhaustive; wouldn't a reader be better served by summarizing the reception, identifying the common points made by most reviewers, giving a couple of examples, and perhaps including the most prestigious sources such as the LA Times and Entertainment Weekly?

Are you suggesting me to remove the assistant engineers, translators and art directors? Well I was thinking about creating Dreaming of You in popular culture where I can add all the reviews (remove most from this article) and also add covers from popular artists. What do you think?

I would think you could remove some of the engineers (etc.); I don't know much about music production but I imagine some of those roles are significant and others less so. It should probably be trimmed to the important roles. This is another place where you could use advice from an editor who works on music articles. As for the idea of an "in popular culture" article: I'm not a fan of those myself, because it's very difficult to determine what sort of information is notable enough to be mentioned in them. It's very easy for those articles to end up as a magnet for uninteresting and non-notable trivia. It can be done; see Jane Austen in popular culture for an example. A list of covers is reasonable; how about an article List of covers of Selena songs or something like that? I certainly wouldn't try to include every review you can find -- writing an article is a process of finding, filtering, and organizing; if you don't filter down to what is genuinely useful to the reader you make the reader do extra work. This is something that opinions vary on, though, so you might take your lead from other successful articles. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Alright I'll trimmed the fat :) Thanks, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

• I'm not expert on the use of copyrighted audio files; I've seen it done successfully but I think you might need to strengthen the fair use rationale or include more specific discussion of the songs' style. At the moment I think a reader can learn what Selena sounds like on this album by listening to one of the clips, and that's probably justifiable, but I don't think you've got a good specific reason to include the second and third clips yet. Again, I think someone who has worked on this sort of article elsewhere can help you out here.
• I saw the notes from the copyeditor on copyvio concerns; I have not checked for that, but it would be a serious issue, so do be careful there.

Overall I'd say you have the right material in here, and are probably close to or at GA pass level already, though some of the copyediting issues might need to be fixed first. For FA I think the copyediting would definitely cause a fail at the moment; the level of detail might do so too, though that's more of a judgement call. I hope this is helpful -- let me know if you have more questions. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:11, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed some of your helpful tips. I will work on removing copyvios from the critical reception section and write them in my own words. I will also work on the others during the weekend or next week. I have also contacted a user who worked on album articles that are FA status per your request. Thanks for this review! Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:57, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. The user you contacted is very good, but not very active; if he doesn't respond you might try a couple of others -- there are some very good music editors around. Good luck! Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:26, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Alright, well if he doesn't then I'll ask you for some very good users :) btw did you read the above reply comments? Thanks, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 17:36, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

I've replied to them above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks again, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

I have now removed all copyvios in the critical reception section, I also removed a lot of reviews and moved some of them in the article body where it is best at. I also removed fancrut and non-encyclopedic text from the musical styles section. I hope this helps :) Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 16:01, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Article comment

If I may, I'd like to give a general comment about the article. I haven't read all of it, but there is a structural issue that could be improved. The intro is exhausting; it's way too long and overly detailed. Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Length gives a guideline of how long the intro of an article should be, based on the article's length. For articles with fewer than 15,000 characters, you need one or two paragraphs in the intro; 15,000–30,000 characters should have two or three paragraphs in the lede, and articles with more than 30,000 characters should have an intro that is three or four paragraphs long. This article is 17,500 words. I don't think we need the chart placements of all the album's singles, as well as information about Janet Jackson and how much Jackson's album sold. That's just unnecessary. Orane (talk) 06:40, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

There are other stylistic issues that could be improved: I was reading the section "Musical style and lyrics", and most of the content there was about chart placements and awards won. I thought this section was only supposed to discuss the music. Why not move the airplay and charting info to the "singles" section of the article? Also, why is "commercial performance" distinguished from "chart performance"? Orane (talk) 06:50, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Me again :) Also, as per the fair use rationale, you cannot have the sound sample in the "singles" section. The fair use rationale states "The section of music used is discussed in the article in relation to the song's lyrics, musical and vocal style, and also contains part of the song's chorus." This is not discussed in the section that the sample is located, and the caption tot he sample does not even make mention of the music or lyrics. Orane (talk) 06:54, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Why does the information in "release" duplicate info that should be in the the "chart/commercial performance" section?

This article lacks structural cohesion. Orane (talk) 06:58, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting, I'll address these issues once the copyedit is complete. Thanks again for your helpful tips and suggestions :) Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 12:00, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

I have  Fixed all the issues presented. Are there any imperfections that could be spotted? Thanks, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:06, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

You did a really good job. Just a few notes: the intro still feature four paragraphs, instead of the recommended three, as per my initial comment above. The first and second paragraphs of the intro are great; the third and fourth can be condensed into one. One thing you have to remember is that chart placements and sales etc are secondary. The album, its motivation and inspiration are most important. So you don't need to spend much time listing the album's sales and chart success in the intro.

For the caption in the sound sample boxes, you need to comment on what the audio samples add to the article and its discussion of the album's music. Right now, you're only discussing chart placements. You need to use the sound samples appropriately in order to justify them as fair use in the article.

Lastly, for the credits and personnel section, you should use a dash to separate the names from their contribution to the album (as in "Selena  – vocals") and not "Selena (vocals)". Orane (talk) 03:04, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed I trimmed the lead and removed the peak positions for the singles in the lead, I left that DOY debuted at number-one on Billboard 200 and it being the second highest debut and second fastest selling album by a female artist, if that's ok? I'm not really good with the non-free rationals, can you help me with that? Thanks and best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 03:36, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Here is an example of a proper fair use rational. You just need to write what the samples contribute to the article, as discussed in the "Musical style and lyrics" section. But what I was specifically talking about was the actual caption that you use in the article. For example, in the audio box for "Dreaming of You", the caption reads "One of Selena's English songs, "Dreaming of You peaked at number 21 in the Billboard charts. 34 second sample." But for fair use of the sample to be justified, you need to change that to something like "Dreaming of You" is about a lonely and depressed woman in her room at night, who dreams endlessly of being with her boyfriend. Written by Franne Golde and Tom Snow, the song features piano and guitar as its foundation, as well as wind chimes and funk-influenced bass instrumentation." This would indicate to the readers that the sample is used to enhance the discussion of music, and not just randomly placed in the article. Make sense? Orane (talk) 04:23, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes now I understand! Thanks, will get on it. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 13:54, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

 Fixed I removed "Only Love" as it violated WP:SAMPLE plus it was requested on the peer review. Best, Jonayo! ^{Selena 4 ever} 15:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dreaming of You (album)/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 13:43, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Comments (apologies for the delay, have been too busy in real life to give enough focus to this review)

• "1994–1995" in the infobox -> "1994–95" per WP:YEAR.

 Done

• "were top record producers" bit POV.

 Done

• Yolanda Saldívar appears to have a diacritic.

 Done

• Some of the lead is referenced, a lot is not. In general, you use the lead to summarise the main article, and use the main article to expand upon the lead, placing references there instead of the odd one here and there in the lead.
• "did additional production" not great prose.
• "quintrigenuple platinum" 35 times platinum is more accessible to most!

 Agreed!

• "As of 2010" and "As of 2008"... no updates considering it's now 2013?
  • I guess not. The sales figure hasn't change over the years since the last I checked. Not only that, but Latin albums don't generally sell very well (about a tenth of a standard album) in the US.
• "Behar thought that he had discovered the next Gloria Estefan but his superior called Behar illogical since he had been in South Texas less than a week" not keen on the prose here, plus it reads like it should be a quote, i.e. "discovered "the next Gloria Estefan" ..." otherwise it's not particularly encyclopedic.

 Done

• "won several accolades" well a Grammy is an accolade, isn't it?

 Done

• "Selena was signed to EMI's SBK Records in November 1993 in Los Angeles.[17][18] Selena's new deal was front-page news on Billboard magazine.[19][20] Selena said ..." three consecutive short sentences starting with "Selena...." is not great prose.
• "to begin.[9] EMI relented and the recording sessions began" begin .. began... again, not good prose.
• "They had decided to step down prior to the recording sessions, since they wished to allow professional pop producers to work with her" -> "They had decided to step down prior to the recording sessions to allow professional pop producers to work with Selena".

 Done

• "Selena Etc.boutiques" space missing.

 Done

• "while the reminder contains" typo.
• I don't see the typo. I did reword it though.
• "of the New York Daily News" it's just Daily News.

 Done

• You link Dion and Houston but not Abdul, why?

 Done

• "I should do. " spare space.

 Done

• "exerted an excessive amount of esophagus" I don't understand this.
• "Donde Quiera Que Estes" is missing a diacritic.
• "developed .[56] " remove space.

 Done

• "Selena said it was still being developed .[56] Jose Behar of EMI Latin said " reads odd because Behar is talking about what happened after Selena was killed.
• "140,000 units of..." avoid starting sentences with a number.
• "EMI Records reported that the delay in releasing the album outside the U.S. was their fear of the main focus on Selena's death rather than her music." -> "EMI Records reported that the delay in releasing the album outside the U.S. was their fear that the focus would be on Selena's death rather than her music."

 Done

• Link Janet Jackson the first time, not the second.

 Done

• "Some Texas retailers criticized sale figures for their state" don't really get this.
• "350,000 copies.[81][66][82]" refs in numerical order.
• "was released commercially[50]" how else would it be released?
• "peaked at number 21 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart.[100] It peaked at number " peaked at... peaked at... repetitive prose.
• "As of 2005" it's late 2013...
  • See above. Although I don't think this is actually necessary as the three million copies sold in the US should suffice.
• Not much point in creating abbreviations like ASCAP if you never use them.
• Boston Globe is The Boston Globe.
•  Done
• Is it Allmusic or AllMusic?

 Done

• Is it Daily Vault or The Daily Vault? And if it's not notable enough for a Wikipedia article, does it really matter what they said?
• Honestly I don't know. I've seen it used on other articles, though I know that other stuff exists is not a valid reason.
• Tables with a single entry need not be sortable.
• In Certifications, Sales/shipments col doesn't sort correctly.
  • Sounds like a problem template.
• Check ref titles for WP:DASH e.g. ref 68 needs an en-dash in the title, not a hyphen.
• Refs 23, 41, 42, 43, 45, 61, 140 etc... have "accessdate" parameters but no URLs so no required.

A few things to address on this first quick run-through, so I'll put it on hold for a week. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:34, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

AJona1992 hasn't been active since last month, so I'll take a shot at addressing the issues as this is an important Latin album. Erick (talk) 08:38, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

May I ask for week extension? I do not think I will be able complete within the deadline. Erick (talk) 19:06, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure, no worries, just keep me informed. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:07, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

I've done some changes. But given my busy college schedule and what I still need to fix for this article, I might need another week extension. I apologize for the inconvience. Erick (talk) 05:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Fine, just let me know how you get on. The Rambling Man (talk) 16:19, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay again. College again and as a FAC kept me busy. I should have some time either tomorrow or Tuesday. Erick (talk) 04:12, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

These what I got so far. Given the large scope of the issues though, I don't think I can complete the article without AJona's aid. Especially since I did not really contribute to the article. More to come. Erick (talk) 23:47, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Ok, well no major trauma here. I can "fail" this specific GAN and you can work on it with no time constraints, and perhaps AJona will return. It's your call? We don't normally keep GANs on hold for so long. Let me know what you'd like to do. The Rambling Man (talk) 17:16, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Well, perhaps it is for the best. I was hoping he'd return soon, but I've done what I've could. Plus I know you have another article of mine to review. I'll leave a message on his talk page. Erick (talk) 02:29, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Okay, per the above discussion, I'll fail the GA in its current state. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:11, 13 October 2013 (UTC)