Talk:Carrot/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Carrot tops are also edible

Where is the proof they are edible? I have met botanists and nutritionists who claim they are not. Many plant parts of vegetables are not edible, being slightly irritating to to the stomach or having low to moderate levels of toxins. Green potatoes are one example. Carrots are related to many poisonous species. They have been bred for their edible taproot, not their 'edible' greens. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.144.23 (talk) 02:50, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Carrot and stick?

Carrots are orange and red as well as them being really tasty so you should buy them!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.98.53.215 (talk) 20:19, 11 January 2012 (UTC) Is it worth talking to "carrots vs sticks" in this article? Just a thought --Irrevenant [ talk ] 23:44, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

We actually have an article carrot and stick, I've just added it to the "see also" section. Beeblebrox (talk) 23:48, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Carrots used as sexual stimuli?

Would it be relevant to include a section in this article discussing the widespread use of carrots as sexual stimuli? In recent years there has been a growing community of vegetable fetishists. Suggestions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.213.213.67 (talk) 15:32, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Sugar percentage

Why sugar percentage is not included?--MathFacts (talk) 00:35, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Need a reliable source, if you've got one then that'll help the page and I would encourage you to be bold. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules:^simple/_complex 00:58, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

History of the carrot

From the BBC, I have learnt that carrots were originally purple - and became orange in the seventeenth century to honour William of Orange. We need information on how this was done to go in this article. ACEOREVIVED (talk) 00:36, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

According to this site it is probably a myth http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html. I am no carrot expert, and I don't even know if the source is reliable, just thought I'd mention it --DM74 (talk) 08:09, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Development of the domesticated carrot

According to this site: http://www.carrotmuseum.co.uk/history.html the domesticated carrot is not developed from the wild carrot. I'll let someone with more knowledge of carrots judge. --DM74 (talk) 08:09, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

that website contains contradictory claims in that aspect --Adom2000 (talk) 08:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Carrot in cosmetics

Carrot can be used in cosmetics to make facial masks at home. In order to use carrot in cosmetics, you should either juice or grate it. You can use carrot to make natural facial masks for nearly any face type. Mix grated carrot with egg white and a teaspoon of potato starch to get facial mask for normal skin. Carrot juice together with sour cream makes hydrating facial mask for dry and normal skin. Refreshing facial mask for all skin types is made by mixing grated carrot, potato starch and egg yellow. In order to reduce tiny wrinkles on your face and improve the color of your face, mix grated carrot with a teaspoon of honey.

• Natural Facial Masks http://www.expect2get.com/natural-facial-masks/. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

--MsArtala (talk) 08:15, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from ZaciOne, 8 May 2011

sl:Korenje ZaciOne (talk) 22:06, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I would like to link this article to an article on the same topic in the slovenian language (called "slovenščina" - the language, that is. The article i would like to link "Carrot" to is called "Korenje").

 Already done Check the left bar. CTJF83 23:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Sprucemuce, 14 July 2011

In the "Production trends" section, the global and regional production quantities of carrots are listed as being billions of tonnes per year. Since this works out at several tonnes per person I checked the cited source which seems to indicate it is actually millions of tonnes, and the listed values are out by a factor of a thousand. Maybe a European editor is using the comma as a decimal point or something...

Cheers.

Sprucemuce (talk) 18:37, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

 Not done in the production trends section it appears to already say millions. Maybe you misread it. Monkeymanman (talk) 20:09, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

It says "33,582 millions of tonnes of carrots" in the article. Unless I'm reading that wrongly, that implies 33,582,000,000 or 33.582 billion tonnes where the correct number is 33,582,000 or 33.582 million tonnes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sprucemuce (talk • contribs) 21:40, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Done Changed to 33.582 millions of tones. Jnorton7558 (talk) 05:35, 16 July 2011 (UTC)

== Black carrot

(I was personally unaware of it before today.)
It is used in this Turkish dish: şalgam.
And "black carrot juice concentrate" is an ingredient in Panda brand Raspberry Liquorice from Finland.
Varlaam (talk) 00:58, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Extra references

The section on the University of Wisconsin patenting a breed of carrot comes with a patent number. Any reason why we can't just drop a link in to the USPTO's patent DB entry,[1], and clear all the citation-needed labels from the same paragraph? That patent itself seems to link in some other relevant research publications, if that's what you need. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 175.39.39.149 (talk) 08:28, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Done Good tip. Thankee. Sietse (talk) 19:17, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

"umbel-lifer"?

Just saw that "correction" for "umbellifer" in a recent edit and I'm pretty sure it's wrong. I've never seen that word hyphenated, let alone in such an unintuitive way. So I think it should be reverted to the non-hyphenated version. 69.111.79.119 (talk) 21:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. That's simple vandalism (there's a surprising amount of it on this article). I've reverted it. Frutti di Mare 22:34, 23 May 2012 (UTC).

Link update for the reference "Myths of Vegetarianism"

Myths of Vegetarianism — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sogetes (talk • contribs) 17:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. I've put it in. This article really shouldn't be indefinitely semiprotected. Frutti di Mare 20:15, 29 June 2012 (UTC).

Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz): how much water ?

Also vitamin A is 334 % and not 104 % according to - http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2383/2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vwalvekar (talk • contribs) 07:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Carrots suck

When Russia had a nuclear tragedy, they planted carrots to help suck up the contamination....vegetables that grow below the surface, such as carrots, but also things like radishes, potatoes, beets, etc., can take up some lead from the soil, and stuff that grows above ground, like tomatoes, do not. Who knew?--Pawyilee (talk) 00:14, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

See bioaccumulation for more information on this topic. Sasata (talk) 00:28, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 April 2013

Dear Sir / Madam At the end of the History section, you might want to add the following: "In Flanders - the Dutch-speaking half of Belgium, the carrot is sometimes referred to as 'Grondworst' (Lit. 'Earth-sausage')." The source, however, remains unclear. This addition is from my own experience as a native Dutch speaker from Belgium. Thank you for your time,

-B

194.7.114.2 (talk) 08:59, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Not done: This is by definition original research, which is not allowed. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:18, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Greens

"The greens are edible as a leaf vegetable, but are only occasionally eaten by humans as they contain toxic alkaloids." On what level does that make sense? 129.173.232.80 (talk) 20:48, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

• I reverted a recent addition that seemed to equate the presence of alkaloids with toxicity. Sasata (talk) 21:07, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

And I reverted it back based on the plain English use of the word "toxic" by a reliable source. There is abundant sourcing for the presence of toxic compounds in carrot greens. And yes, some people eat them anyway. Obviously, it's a mistake to equate "toxic" with "lethal". Federales (talk) 00:21, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I reverted back: please read the source carefully, it does not actually say that the carrot contains "toxic alkaloids", rather, that "some" alkaloids are toxic, and that carrot tops contain alkaloids. It would be synthesis to suggest that the source claims that carrot tops contain toxic alkaloids. Sasata (talk) 00:45, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Fine. That's a highly pedantic and obtusely literal reading of that one source, but as I said before... there's plenty more to be had:

• "Cut off carrot greens because they contain toxic substances."[2]

• "Unlike other root veggies such as beets and turnips, never use carrot greens in your juice. They are not only bitter, they contain elements that can be toxic."[3]

• "Although you might think you'll be adding some extra nutrients by using the green carrot tops, always discard the greens, even if you'll be putting them through a juice machine. Carrot foliage contains toxic substances and is inedible -- unless you're a rabbit."[4]

• "Two exceptions are rhubarb and carrots. Rhubarb leaves and carrot tops both contain toxic substances."[5]

As you can see, there is ample sourcing for a basic statement that carrot foliage contains substances toxic to humans. And while there may be some literature out there that expresses approval of eating carrot foliage, such sources would only allow us to state that there is disagreement on the matter. There's no way this article can be worded to state unequivocally that carrot greens are routinely edible, without telling the whole story. Federales (talk) 02:45, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's ample sourcing. I've reverted again. Bishonen | talk 03:37, 13 June 2013 (UTC).

I've added a couple of citations. They're pretty flaky sources, but will do in a pinch until I find better. Sasata (talk) 04:21, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

What's the pinch, exactly? Is this so urgent that you need to edit war about it? Bishonen | talk 04:36, 13 June 2013 (UTC).

A cursory glance at this article's edit history strongly suggests there may be a WP:OWN issue here. Federales (talk) 04:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

What edit war? I added two of the sources that you found. Sasata (talk) 04:45, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

You are at 3rr. If you aren't sure what that means, this would be a good time to brush-up. Federales (talk) 04:53, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)(Who, me? I found some sources?) If you don't know the definition of edit warring or the Three Revert Rule, check it out here. You have reverted three times in seven hours and are on the verge of a block. That's why I warned you on your page. I see you have removed my post. It remains in the history. Bishonen | talk 04:55, 13 June 2013 (UTC).

So block me then, I obviously deserve it for my disruptive behavior, and need to be taught a lesson. Sasata (talk) 04:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

That's not how things work here. Admins don't issue blocks as punishment; they issue blocks to mitigate disruption and restore order. It would be better to work out a consensus here on the Talk page.

At the moment, there are two problematic statements that require adjustment.

First, in the lead we have:

"The most commonly eaten part of a carrot is a taproot, although the greens are edible as well."

I propose that this should read:

"The most commonly eaten part of a carrot is a taproot, although the greens are sometimes eaten as well. "

Further down, we have:

"The greens are edible as a leaf vegetable, but are only occasionally eaten by humans; some sources suggest that the greens contain toxic alkaloids. "

Which I think should be changed to say:

"The greens are sometimes eaten as a leaf vegetable, but are only occasionally eaten by humans as they are known to contain toxic alkaloids."

Thoughts? Federales (talk) 05:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I've changed the lead statement per your suggestion, but not the second. It contradicts another scholarly source I have (Rubatsky et al.) that clearly indicates the green are edible: "young tender foliage occasionally is used as a stir-fry potherb, and in salads in China and Japan." (p. 253) The two Bishonen sources I reluctantly added are not scholarly; they do not indicate what the identity of these "toxic" alkaloids are, and do not give sources to let the reader investigate for themselves. This is the first I've heard of toxic alkaloids in carrot greens (I'm not an expert or anything, but have done a bit of research in preparation for an FAC push), at least in any sort of concentration that the consumer would have to be worried about it (would there not be warning labels on the food product otherwise?). I suspect (but cannot prove) that the authors of these diet books may be conflating the toxicity of the parsnip greens, a closely related plant, with carrots, and making the latter "guilty by association". I will be happy to change my mind if you can find a more scholarly source that says otherwise. Sasata (talk) 05:31, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, there is this: [6] and this: [7] Incidentally, each of those sources mention a compound with an article that could be Wikilinked (falcarinol and pyrrolidine).

By the way, I'm content to say "carrot greens contain toxic alkaloids" vs. the blanket statement "carrot greens are toxic", since I think we've established that some people do eat them, apparently without ill effect. Indeed, this source [8] is useful in that regard. Federales (talk) 05:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Well, to be fair we should really then say "carrots contain toxic alkaloids", as falcarinol is present in the roots. It would probably be best for the reader, if we do not perpetuate the uncritical advice given by diet fad books and instead provide this information more accurately with better context. For example, in the last source, it is not clear whether the cultivated form of carrot (i.e. the topic of this article) has different levels of alkaloids than the wild form Daucus carota, and in some parts they speak more generally of genus Daucus. I suspect this can be cleared up only by digging into the literature. Falcarinol is mentioned in the "Chemistry" section (which needs to be expanded), but I did not know about pyrrolidine; I'll investigate and add it to the article soon. I can't see the first two sources you've given... could you summarize? BTW, falcarinol doesn't seem to be particularly "toxic" unless it's delivered in high doses to lab rats. I suppose the article could mention that it's allergenic to susceptible individuals... Sasata (talk) 06:12, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Harold McGee's opinion on the matter Sasata (talk) 06:25, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Pyrrolidine is only present in trace amounts, as a precursor to more complex alkaloids. Ffound in bread, milk, cheese, carrots, celery stalks, beer, spirits, coffee, caviar and fatty fish, it's also a flavoring agent. Sasata (talk) 06:39, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

That source is pretty vague vis-a-vis carrots specifically (i.e, what exactly is a "trace"?), and really doesn't address our concern about foliage. "Pyrrolidine is widely distributed in foodstuffs in trace amts., presumably as bacterial decarboxylation produced of proline. Pyrrolidine is present in bread, milk, cheese, carrots, celery stalks, beer, spirits, coffee, caviar and fatty fish." "Foodstuffs" as used here would seem to address the root of the carrot plant; not necessarily the greens. Federales (talk) 22:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

"Trace" in analytical chemistry means the compound is present in a concentration that approaches the detection limit of the instrumentation used to analyze it (and is thus inherently inaccurate). I've spent an hour digging through the literature to see if I can find a source that gives an actual concentration (which I won't, if it's at trace levels), and have found none that even associate pyrrolidine with carrot leaves, other than the singularly unhelpful Merck Index, which says only "Found in tobacco and carrot leaves. Probable biosynthesis from ornithine and putrescine". Sasata (talk) 23:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

OK, so we're back to "carrot greens contain" the compounds, which is all we can actually source at this point. We can't insert our own judgment regarding "trace amounts" or the implications thereof, as that is obviously original research. Federales (talk) 00:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

I've added a mention of pyrrolidine in the chemistry section. Sasata (talk) 01:15, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 16 August 2013; second reference and very relevant image/cartoon provided

For the sub-section "Nutrition", the last paragraph (discussing the legend of carrots helping Night Vision in WWII Britain), a second source is

• Bombers & Mash: The Domestic Front 1939-1945, Raynes Minns, (c) 1980; Virago Press (c) 1999; ISBN 1 86049 794 2, Great Britain, p. 97; with an image (cartoon) of "Dr. Carrot" on p. 101.

As the image was widely and publically distributed by HMG it would be in the public domain and thus could be used for the Wikipedia article.

George S. Cole, cited reference in personal library 75.36.167.169 (talk) 18:50, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done for now: Unless I'm misreading things, the sourcing already seems adequate in that part of the article. If you are confident the image conforms to the image use policy, please feel free to upload it and then open a new request on this page. Rivertorch (talk) 06:45, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

US introduction

European settlers introduced the carrot to the United States in the 17th century.[ How can that be since the United States didn't exist in the 17th century? Perhaps this should say "American Colonies" or "North America" John Alan Elson★ WF6I A.P.O.I. 21:05, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out! I changed it to "Colonial America" with a link to Thirteen Colonies. Rivertorch (talk) 23:38, 18 August 2013 (UTC)