Talk:Canggu

Please be aware that there are coordinated efforts from foreign investors, coworking space "digital nomads" and such to edit this page to make it seem as if Wikipedia is endorsing their project. Wikipedia is an online encylpedia and material here should be of high provenance and of high significancne. Any such shilling should be met with distrust and not allowed on wikipedia.

Please watch the page and make sure that people are not publishing their villa projects on here.

(That message was left by 182.253.51.245 on 10 June 2024, 13:27.)

Trashy tourist project

Hi 182.253.51.245,

Around June 3/5, I added that section titled "The Taryan / Anantara Dragon project, resort and residences on Seseh Beach in Cemagi" (below). With all due references to the contest is not on that point.
You removed it on June 10, with edit summary as follows:

Wikipedia is not a place for chindo, chinese, indonesian to market their luxury villas for sale to foreigners, please respect wikipedia and keep that trash to instagram and facebook.

That presentation starts with a proposition that sets the tone for the whole of it: "gathered much controversy". What the project was. How swiftly its presentation has been altered to make it palatable to the locals. How swiftly said locals have swallowed the bait once it was presented differently, with mere surface alterations and a lavish seasoning of promises.
It is most definitely not intended for "market their luxury villas for sale to foreigners". If you look at it closely, there is for example:

"Additionally, Taryan Dragon will endeavour to assess and provide assistance for Seseh’s own village (desa) projects, including a comprehensive road reconstruction project, better lighting, smoother surfaces and marked laneways."

Which is followed by:

"More environmentally-responsible commitments were made too"

and that, for those who can read, means that what precedes is not environmentally responsible.
As for those "environmentally-responsible commitments", let's have a look at that too.

"the number of floors has been reduced"

ok, but that's only because if they had persisted with their '7 floors above ground' they would have been too vulnerable in the face of the law (building not supposed to be higher than a mature palm tree), although pots-de-vin can always be arranged, wouldn't be the first time, but that costs.

"building sections reduced and reconfigured"

the reduction here can be suppressed because reduction is already mentioned in the previous item, so we just keep the 'reconfigured'. Big deal for the environment (not).

"the beach club changed into a beach lounge"

yes, so what's the difference.

"facades covered with greenery"

yes, facades. Looks good. Big deal.

"more Balinese materials integrated, the use of local eco-materials and recycled plastic through an agreement with an Indonesian recycled furniture company"

that one says 2 things: it took pressure for them to think about it, so it clearly is not within the scope of their preoccupations (if it was and they did not think of it by themselves then it would mean that they are incompetent idiots, which they are not, they simply can't be bothered); and - it being the last item on the list - it indirectly says that there is no attention to the environmental cost of running the thing (thinking of waste of water in particular - which I highlighted in Subak (irrigation)#Present threats, no ambiguity there with the subsection "Water diverted to tourism and polluted" -, but other aspects too). I don't mind saying it more directly but that takes references which will, maybe, be available only after it's run at least one year + the delay to get it online.
It will also be interesting to add to that, when we get the data, infos on all the points that I added in the sub-section "Socio-economical effects" in Labuan Bajo#Tourism development, where you can read among other points:

"...the flaws that have so far remained hidden from tourists: marginalization of local people, denial of indigenous peoples' rights, privatization of coastal areas and water resources, destruction of forests, control by big business players with strong political connections, and the resistance by residents to defend their living space. Thus tourism developments in Labuan Bajo offers little benefit to the local people; they are designed for outsiders and the interests of local residents are neglected", indirectly "Land speculation and sell-out", "low wages, the high proportion of businesses which do not fully comply with labour laws, insufficient provision of social security throughout the industry and a lack of structured efforts in staff training", concluding that "All in all, the revenue increase often touted for the area does not globally profit the local population and the contribution to poverty reduction remains marginal; nor is there any indication for infrastructural improvements which benefit the local population in significant ways."

Then there is also this, which fits perfectly here too:

One aspect of this tourism development is the increase of imbalance between the well-developed centre of Indonesia and its lesser developed periphery. Only 1/3 of business owners are Florenese, and they mostly own small businesses with low margins who face the strongest competition, such as budget accommodations and tour operators. The large proportion of ownership by outsiders, in conjunction with these outsiders owning the businesses with the highest profits, presents a significant source for financial leakage."... "the leakage situation has worsened..." with more luxury resorts opening.

In a way you are right: talking about that trash is somehow some form of advertisment. But that trash is there, and expanding. That means that you are wrong in all other ways: not talking about it means not talking about how it insinuates itself in... everything, really, and talking about that is definitely anti-marketing.
To me, that presentation is incomplete. It should mention 1) the financial leakage (none of the owners are locals); I find it interesting that the mid-European-cum-underhand-Russian Taryan has very recently allied with Minor International, a group that's got a bit more of "local colour" in that it's Asian, no doubt to try and dilute the "foreign" bit and the inherent financial leakage. 2) the fact that the revenue increase often touted for big tourist ventures "does not globally profit the local population and the contribution to poverty reduction remains marginal", coming from a ref that's non-debatable at wikipedia's level.

As it is, that presentation is without a doubt very different to what they would have done - I'm quite sure they would not like it at all. Which brings this question: who are you. IP address, just one edit: this here suppression and nothing else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/182.253.51.245. Yes of course it's suspicious, in the circumstance. Will leave a message on your talk page a.s.a. this here is on, to lead you here.

So. Please do contribute to that debate intelligently - that is, you quit proselytism: I have neither facebook nor instagram (yes, we do exist), nor tv for that matter and I don't even bother with newspapers either so I'm not quite ready to take lessons on respect with no backup to sustain them, from a quidam with no history to boost. I'd rather learn something, thank you. Talk/exchange with you soon, I hope. Please don't forget to add something like {{u|Pueblo89}} or other call to your message, thank you. Pueblo89 (talk) 23:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

The section in dispute

The Taryan / Anantara Dragon project, resort and residences on Seseh Beach in Cemagi

One project in particular has gathered much controversy: the five-star and — originally — seven-floor Taryan Dragon Resort & Residence, on more than 1 hectare right along Seseh beach in Cemagi, next to Canggu. This project had earned Ukrainian company Taryan Towers a world-class win of the International Property Awards in the category of “Best Residential High-Rise Development 2021 Nomination”. But following a mediatised protest campaign and petition, its developper halted the project in September 2023 and proceeded with what he had not done as yet: meet and consult with the community leaders.
Agreements were made to ensure that the development benefits both the community and the surrounding area, with commitments from the hotel to respect Balinese and Indonesian traditions and regulations, to focus on integrating cultural and religious activities, to not feature noisy venues like beach clubs or karaoke bars, to ensure that 40% of the workforce will be local people, to collaborate with local communities in the field of tourism education and training, and to involve local security (pecalang) for a smooth process of development and operations. Additionally, Taryan Dragon will endeavour to assess and provide assistance for Seseh’s own village (desa) projects, including a comprehensive road reconstruction project, better lighting, smoother surfaces and marked laneways. More environmentally-responsible commitments were made too: the number of floors has been reduced, building sections reduced and reconfigured, the beach club changed into a beach lounge, facades covered with greenery, more Balinese materials integrated, as well as the use of local eco-materials and recycled plastic through an agreement with an Indonesian recycled furniture company.

From around September 15, it took hardly six weeks for the local community leaders to warmly welcome the new Taryan project. By the following November 3, many of them and the Taryan Dragon Resort & Residence team took part in a traditional Balinese Ngeruak ceremony. This was immediately followed by a meeting at Adat Seseh in Cemagi that gathered owners’ representatives and shareholders of the Taryan Group, the local Balinese architects and construction company, and more than 100 community figures. A berita acara officiation or letter of support was signed by all parties and validated the project. The final design was presented in December 2023, with work on the ground due to start early January 2024, aiming for completion in 2026, for 216 rooms and suites, a beach lounge, three swimming pools and three dining outlets including a Japanese restaurant and poolside bar.

As of May 2024, Taryan Group (founder and owner Artur Mkhitaryan) has associated with Anantara Hotel Group (owned by Minor International, CEO Dillip Rajakarier) and the Taryan Dragon project is relabelled the Anantara Dragon Seseh Bali Resort. When it opens, it will be the fourth venue owned by Anantara Hotel Group who already possesses Avant Seminyak Bali Resort and Anantara Uluwatu Bali Resort, along with Anantara Ubud Bali Resort due to open in September 2024.