Talk:Brian Rua U'Cearbhain

Hi, I'm the author. I really really believe this page must not be deleted. This person may not have had biographies written about them but he was real. Everybody in Erris and many from elsewhere know about Brian Rua from Inver. I'm currently in the process of locating any snippets I can that people have about him. I will be photographing his home place. Brian Rua was as real as Granuaile but nobody has written a whole book on him. All local authors have included him in their books on the area. I was requested to write about him to put him into a wider knowledge base. I believe this article is good enough currently but assure any doubters that I will be doing all I can to improve it.Comhar (talk) 21:07, 14 April 2010 (UTC)ComharComhar (talk) 21:07, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

OK, maybe it doesn't deserve deletion, but the style in which it is written is completely inappropriate to wikipedia. And this is a guy whose own article work deals primarily with saints saying this. We do not want wikipedia to be used as a venue by which to canonize people, and this article is a POV nightmare, in my opinion. It definitely, definitely, needs some clean up for its all-too-apparent POV. John Carter (talk) 22:24, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Specific suggestions please. Will be happy to clean up if I know what your specific objections are. Who has put this into the Christianity section? I certainly didn't write it in that light and don't think it should be in there. Is that what the problem is with it? I started the article - I started it because the story of Brian Rua is very well known in the local area even though all written word from the time seems to have been destroyed. This is an oral history folklore tale. It's culture and heritage - a folk tale from the parish of Cill Chomáin, Iorras. Are you trying to make it something different? If it causes you any problem please remove it from the Christianity section as I don't think it should be there at all and I was its instigator. That was not my intention at all. Thanks. Comhar (talk) 14:38, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I know being introduced to Wikipedia isn't an easy thing; it's always a bumpy ride at first, but try to stick with it :) we just have a really high standard, because we're striving to be an encyclopedia. I'll take a stab at explaining this...

• the problem is, well, it reads like a story in the first person (from an insider's view), and it also asserts everything as fact. That would be fine if this was a story site (and it reads well enough!) but this is an encyclopedia. This isn't really the place for stories, I'm afraid :(
• We have a policy called neutral point of view; you'll notice in most articles here about religious figures, we tend to write in the third person (e.g. an outsider's view), and we don't just assume stuff happened; we're careful to say who believes what happened, but we never assume it. If that's part of the legend, then we say it is according to legend, and we provide a reference. For Wikipedia to claim that this fellow is an extraordinary man isn't appropriate; it's what we call peacockery.
• Also, be careful with references. Just citing a home page like the Mayo county library? I'm sorry, but could you be a bit more specific? We want to know what books, when were they published, who wrote them... you know, references :) (You might want to see what a reliable source is, too)

Again, I know this is a lot to take in but I hope it will make sense. If you could edit the article to be a bit less story-like and a bit more third-person/impartial, that'd go a long way towards improving things. And by all means, if you want to have the story in its current form, there's gotta be a good story-pedia site out there somewhere. I'm not saying it's a bad story at all, it just doesn't really fit here, that's all. Thanks for your understanding,

-- Joren (talk) 21:19, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I will try to do that with this article over the next month or two. I've been very busy at other things. However, it may be that Wikipedia should be a case of different strokes for different folks and that many ordinary people would enjoy this article immensely in its current slightly naive form which is, of course, due to its nature, the way it should be. I, for instance, find the interesting/technical/scientific articles on Wikipedia concerning stuff like 'hertz', AC currents, quantum physics, Topographic Hibernia, or menthafolia palustrus seu aquatica major etc... completely and utterly fascinating - if and when I choose to read those articles. However, if and when I try to find out about a well-remembered person who lived in the west of Ireland many years ago such as Brian Rua, I do not expect to find it explained in a similar way - I expect to find the writing style, simple and typical of the area Brian Rua lived in. Personally I think Wikipedia is way over saturated with junk personified in terms of non-entity people (heroes NOT!) and as for most of the sports related 'tripe', of which there are literally millions of articles, most of them completely irrelevant piffle, I just operate a policy of 'do not go there'; i.e. I don't want to know that information - to me, its just absolute irrelevant rubbish. So, do I label these articles as rubbish to be deleted? No, I do not. I recognise that some 'dorks' out there (I hope I never have the misfortune to have to spend time with them) might want to know that kind of stuff even if I would not waste one second of my precious life looking at it. I like my article on Brian Rua - to you, who don't like it- don't go there. What are you doing reading it if the subject matter is not something you are interested in? Many have read this article. Many have told me how much they have enjoyed it. Those people are in the west of Ireland or have family roots in the west of Ireland. I ask others who would like to see such articles deleted to go and look at all the rubbish elsewhere on Wikipedia and get that junk dealt with before thinking of deleting an article so close to the heart of many - the story of Brian Rua U'Cearbhain from Inver, Kilcommon in Erris, North Mayo. Thank you very much from Erris. Comhar (talk) 09:41, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

p.s. You might want to 'speak' to other editors of Wikipedia. Today, I have just seen a change made to my Kilcommon article. My reference was to Mayo County Library with the exact location of the info specified. That editor has just removed the exact specification and reduced the link to Mayo Library only. I do my best - I notice that other editors often undo what I think is the right thing. Again, unless I really disagree, or its blatant vandalism (or maybe, I am not in a great humour) I usually just go along with what they've done - sure someone is only going to do similar again if I try to be a control freak and keep it my way or the highway. I hate control freaks and don't want to be thought to be one. Comhar (talk) 10:36, 31 October 2010 (UTC).

Have gone through this article and made changes to try and comply with some of the points made above. I hope it is acceptable now for its particular genre? Thanks. Comhar (talk) 18:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I still object to its removal. I think it is unnecessary. It causes no offence and gives a lot of pleasure to those seeking information on Erris in North Mayo. Comhar (talk) 13:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

In order to save my article from deletion I have been forced to replace it with a stub. This is a shame and a sin. Why would anybody object to my article in full, an article I worked hard on to make for Wikipedia. I simply cannot contemplate what kind of small mindedness could demand that it be deleted. I'm sorry to all who want to read about Brian Rua but apparently you cannot because some unnamed individual objects to you being able to find out. I do apologise and hope that you will be able to access the information you seek by looking at the list of references at the bottom of this article or being able to view the earlier versions of this story by going through the history of the article. Again, I'm so sorry, I really am. I don't understand. I've done my best. I don't want the article deleted. I believe the article is of great value to the people, past, present and future of Erris in North Mayo, Ireland. I'm so sorry that somebody else does not. I cannot for the life of me think what they have to gain by deleting this article. That decision is the most small-minded, selfish, stupid decision I have come across in a long time.

If problems arise because somebody has decided that this article is about Christian values or something, those are not categories I put this article into. My article was not categorised under Christianity by me and I do not think it appropriate that it is categorised as such. However, I cannot interfere with what other editors think is appropriate but if their actions are causing my article to be deleted then I think it is time that all those categorisations are removed rather than removing my very relevant article. If that is the problem, kindly remove all those categorisations and return the article to its original content. I meant this article as information for all visitors to Erris, all the people of Erris, for all future generations of Erris and for everybody who wants to know the story of Brian Rua. That is all I meant and I am so fed up that somebody thinks it must be deleted. Help!! Please!!!!

  Comhar (talk) 12:15, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

This stub is actually a good start, IMHO. Just so you know, another editor already objected to the deletion proposal and suggested that it should be taken to WP:AFD instead, where there would be a full discussion instead of only a 7 day wait. When an article is nominated for proposed deletion (WP:PROD) anyone is free to object, including you, within seven days of the nomination. What you do is remove the template, then post a reason why you object either in your edit summary or on the discussion page (you already did the second part :) ). If for some reason it IS sent to articles for deletion, you will be personally notified and you will have a chance to participate in the discussion.

Again, your story is very well-written, you should take care to preserve it in a blog or other wiki so that others can still access it.

-- Joren (talk) 00:51, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

ANYONE WHO HAPPENS TO COME ON HERE LOOKING FOR THE STORY OF BRIAN RUA OF INVER, PLEASE CLICK ON THE VIEW HISTORY TAB AND CLICK ON AN EARLIER VERSION OF THIS PAGE. THERE YOU WILL BE ABLE TO READ A GREAT DEAL MORE INFO. THANKS. Comhar (talk) 08:32, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

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