Talk:Bayt Mahsir

Sources to be used

• Canaan, T (1927): Mohammedan Saints and Sanctuaries in Palestine (p.250-251, cited in Petersen, 2002)
• Conder, Claude Reignier and H.H. Kitchener (1881): The Survey of Western Palestine: memoirs of the topography, orography, hydrography, and archaeology. London: Committee of the Palestine Exploration Fund. Vol 3. p.16
• Palmer, E. H. (1881): The survey of Western Palestine: Arabic and English name lists collected during the survey by Lieutenants Conder and Kitchener, R. E. Transliterated and explained by E.H. Palmer. p.286
• Petersen, Andrew (2002): A Gazetteer of Buildings in Muslim Palestine: Volume I (British Academy Monographs in Archaeology) P. 24-5
• Pringle, Denys (1997), Secular buildings in the Crusader Kingdom of Jerusalem: an archaeological Gazetter, Cambridge University Press - p.28

This is, according to Petersen, the seventeenth century Maqam al-Ajami. It is situated on the summit of a hill to the east of the village. The area is now named "Hamasrek Nature reserve". If anyone could find a picture for commons, it would be great.., Huldra (talk) 05:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

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Info

@Huldra and Zero0000: Not sure how to best fit this information from Antonin Jaussen cited by Raouf Abujaber because of the lack of a specific date, year or decade: "Jaussen gave two examples of population movements that seem to have been common in those days [late 19th century?]. He cites the example of two brothers of the tribe of ‘Abbad [a large confederation of unrelated tribes in the Balqa] who crossed the Jordan River and settled in Palestine. Their descendants acquired two villages, Saris and Beit Mahsir. The common lineage of these two clans joined them in their stand to repulse the attacks of the villagers of Abu Ghosh (Jaussen, 1908: 242)." Perhaps you have sources which could elaborate a bit? --Al Ameer (talk) 18:38, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

User:Al Ameer son: It is in fr:Antonin Jaussen, 1908, p. 242 (from the book Coutumes des Arabes au pays de Moab.) It is in French, though. (The article on Jaussen ought also be translated from French; it is a name I have seen popped up several times),(Nice find, btw!) Huldra (talk) 21:00, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: Yes I was surprised that there was no article on him here. I could not gather what time period the Abbadi tribesmen acquired Bayt Mahsir and Saris, however. Was it at the time of writing, i.e. 1900s, or the early or late 19th century? Cheers --Al Ameer (talk) 15:45, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son and Nishidani:, Sorry, my French is on the translate.google.com-level. Perhaps Nishidani knowns/understands Jaussen? (Or could translate the fr:Antonin Jaussen to en.wp?) Huldra (talk) 21:51, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Okay I checked and there is no date given. He says that a mass of Palestinian villages proudly claim that they were founded by Arabs coming in from the East, and that these stories are village legends, a word suggestive of a deeper past. More or less what both of you say above contains the substance of the paragraph, but if you want a literal translation I could do that after some shut-eye. As to translating the French article, well, I'm really busy but would do it if there is some urgency? Nishidani (talk) 22:01, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

@Nishidani:: Nah, it is not urgent (Jaussen is presently used in some 6 articles here); but eventually it would be nice to "mine" Jaussen's books more: looks as if he has some interesting info, (It looks especially interesting wrt the Jordanian places), Huldra (talk) 22:29, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

1967 census

There is a "Beit Mahsir" in the 1967 Israeli census of the West Bank. But this place is not in the West Bank, nor are the neighboring villages shown in the census. I don't have an explanation; does anyone? Zero^talk 23:09, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

User:Zero0000 In what district/Governorate? Huldra (talk) 23:27, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

@Huldra: Ramallah district. It is listed between Surda and Abu Qash. I can't find it on maps. The census lists it as a small village with 361 residents of which 263 are refugees, but it doesn't indicate it as a refugee camp. Zero^talk 23:56, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000: very strange, indeed. I have absolutely no idea as to what they refer to,[1] (Hmm, that reminds me: I should put the rest of those numbers into the various articles ....) Huldra (talk) 20:33, 4 June 2020 (UTC)