Talk:Audley End House

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Isn't "Audley End House" a solecism? I've never heard it called anything but "Audley End". --Wetman 21:14, 8 November 2007 (UTC) Agreed. I used to work there. Ride the Hurricane (talk) 03:50, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

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Woman of Straw

That Woman of Straw was filmed at Audley End is clearly true but should have a better citation. On the film's page, the reference for locations is a book The Cinema of Basil Dearden and Michael Relph (2009) but no page given. Does anyone have access to a copy? Nedrutland (talk) 10:45, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

This isn't meant to be preachy. Wikipedia policy on movies is that plotlines and story elements are assumed to be sourced to the movies itself where they refer to it as Foxhurst [you can watch it yourself, it's online]. The need to cite isn't universal as you can see in this article. Where is the source that the house is Jacobean or it's the namesake of the nearby train station. The standard isn't citation, but verifiable. Also what is so unreliable about a website with photographic proof isn't the location used in the movie. Again, if you want to claim it being used in this movie or the name of fictional manor in the movie as being inaccurate, that's another thing.Cladeal832 (talk) 18:44, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Would help if you bothered to check wether the sources you cite actually said what you claimed they did Murgatroyd49 (talk) 20:23, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

The source is the movie itself which is standard for Wikipedia. It's called Foxhurst unless you are stating it's not.[1] Cladeal832 (talk) 20:28, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

You quoted a book, which, when I checked up, makes no mention of the film whatsover. Using a film as a source for itself is not standard for Wikipedia. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 21:39, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Read the policy, movies are the source for themselves about plotlines and story elements rather than external sources.

But not for locations, which is the whole point. Before preaching to others, read and understand what the guidelines actually say, not what you want them to say. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:00, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:When_to_cite#When_a_source_or_citation_may_not_be_needed

Snippets are on Google Books, but I doubt you have a copy of it. Either way, it's a moot point since it isn't used on the article right now. Again, without contesting the accuracy, which is the point of citing external sourcing, what is the point of all this. Cladeal832 (talk) 21:49, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I do have access to: Burton, Alan; O'Sullivan, Tim (2009). The Cinema of Basil Dearden and Michael Relph. Edinburgh University Press. ISBN 978-0-7486-3289-3. I can confirm that Woman in Straw is covered in some detail on pages 289 to 294, but there is no mention of Audley End House. The only discussion of filming locations is on page 290: "Shooting commenced at Pinewood early in August 1963 and wrapped late in October; while the unit spent a period on location in Majorca during September." Best wishes Mertbiol (talk) 22:46, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you Mertbiol. So the position remains that Woman of Straw was filmed at Audley End but there is not a Reliable Source for it. Therefore, it should have a better citation flag until a RS can be identified. Nedrutland (talk) 09:41, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Sourcing is required for contested claims which again nobody seem to be making one that this movie wasn't shot at Audley House End instead of somewhere else. It's a movie and please read the sourcing of movie for plotlines and story elements. Watch the movie, it's clearly the same house. Also it's repeatedly called Foxhurst to establish it isn't set at Audley End House. Here is an online clip if anybody bothered to watched at 1 minute and 25 seconds into it where it's called Foxhurst www.tcm.com/video/241142/woman-of-straw-1964-are-you-free-of-me. AND also what is so bad about the source that is there right now with reelstreets.com anyhow. And are you saying the information is incorrect. The standard is if verifiable [i.e. can a person watch the movie to see this themselves] rather a link to some external citation. Cladeal832 (talk) 16:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Please read style guide to how movies plotlines and story elements are sourced and again who is contested that this information is inaccurate.

https://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/actors-sean-connery-and-gina-lollobrigida-filming-woman-of-news-photo/940111752 Cladeal832 (talk) 16:46, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

reelstreets.com seems (like IMDb) to be largely user generated and "Content from websites whose content is largely user-generated is generally unacceptable" see Wikipedia:USERGENERATED. Thus it is not a Reliable Source so should be flagged 'Better'. Nedrutland (talk) 17:09, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Seems to be user generated, why not find out. It's not like IMDb and it is curated. Also it's photographs of Audley House End next to a screenshots of the movie unless you think it's fake for whatever reason. This isn't like claiming how many rooms the house has based off of a photograph or screenshot or some less than obvious and specific like how much money the owners of Audley End House were paid by the production. Also there was dispute that no consensus was built. One other user mentioned something about a book he'd read on the director which isn't really here nor there. That's it. Again ignoring the actual accuracy of this which nobody has so far prove it to be wrong. Cladeal832 (talk) 17:37, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Has there been a wider discussion of whether reelstreets is a RS? Remember I wrote at the beginning "clearly true but should have a better citation" and the book I suggested as a possible source proved to not mention Audley End. Nedrutland (talk) 17:46, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

It's just photographs and screenshots so how inaccurate can it be. Either way, what does it matter. Again, we are moving far away from the claim at hand. Audley End House was used in the movie Women of Straw and it's not called Audley End House in the movie, but Foxhurst. Cladeal832 (talk) 17:58, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Please stop using the edit summaries for arguments. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 21:41, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

It's not an argument, just summaries on the edit. Please engage with the issue at hand. This is a landmark. I could kind of understand if this was a generic location like if the claim was this was a specific Walmart in certain place since it's not particular distinct or if Audley End House was used for the filming yet it was only the grounds and the house itself wasn't seen the movie, but it's not the case. It's this house and obvious watching the movie [again, movies are sources for themselves according to Wikipedia guidelines] it's Audley End House and still don't get why this is made so needlessly hard when nobody seems to be disputing this. Nor does Reelstreets.com seem to meet the standard of unreliable source since it's not a personal blog or something like that. Cladeal832 (talk) 22:45, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

• Once again please stop using the edit summaries for discussion.
• Secondly try and understand guidelines you so freely quote.
• Thirdly understand that the whole ethos of Wikipedia is that all statements have to be referenced from a reliable source. Also try checking the sources you quote actually say what you want them to say.
• Finally, stop adding extraneous detail into what is just supposed to be a summary. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 09:29, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Why are you not making arguments when you summarized your edits, but you judge me to be doing that. Pot meet kettle. You are not at all engaging this super minor edit. It keeps coming back need for citation for every statement which isn't true as Wikipedia guidelines in the slightest that everything has to have a citation because look at this article where there is no citations on many statements. The Good Article criteria merely state that inline citations are required for "direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons". It's not particular contentious or challenging that Audley End House is used in this one old movie. Try to think through the logic of that statement since where is the source that Audley End House is on Earth. Wikipedia:You don't need to cite that the sky is blue and it's all a moot point since there is a source anyhow. I would also note you have not shown that reelstreets.com is an unreliable source and you were the one who removed sourcing to Turner Classic Movies website for some unknown reason and it states Audley End House was used for the movie.

Also look at the article. I get you have judge it be extraneous plot detail, but the very next sentence states Audley End House was used in The Crown where it isn't sued for itself, but a stand-in for Balmoral and Eton. Why is fine to mentions what Audley End House was used for in for one, but not the other. Cladeal832 (talk) 15:36, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

The Turner website is not available outside the USA. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 15:57, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Too bad for you, but it's still a reliable source. Cladeal832 (talk) 16:01, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

It is not a source at all. Murgatroyd49 (talk) 16:03, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

How it that true and also it doesn't matter, it's not used on the article anyhow. Cladeal832 (talk) 16:05, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Also that's not true it can't be accessed outside the United States. I am not in the United States and I see the TCM website fine. Cladeal832 (talk) 16:11, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

So it's either not accessible outside the United States [which is it] or it isn't a source [unsure what that means]. Pick a line for this needless dispute about something that is both sourced right now [thanks to you I acknowledge and appreciate]. Also let just move on from that Google Book citation. You can't read it online anyhow and I'm doubtful you have a copy from 1984 and it's brought up again and again it isn't helpful to anybody since it's not even on the article right now anyhow and just wish you'd let it go. Cladeal832 (talk) 16:44, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

In the UK, attempting to access TCM is redirected to https://www.tcm.com/unavailable. Reelstreets.com does not appear to have been considered by the WP community as a possible Reliable Source (see Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard) but it is cited some 90 times. Nedrutland (talk) 09:50, 24 February 2021 (UTC)