Talk:Asahi Breweries/Archives/2013

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Golden Poop

Kin no Unchi literally translates into Golden Poop. The reason for this is that the shape of the flame is, well, awkward. This is not vandalism and there is no reason to offer the Japanese colloqialism if there is not an English translation as it provides no relevant information to any non-Japanese speakers. If someone has a picture of the building for the page, I believe it would be quite helpful.

Please stop reverting this change under the assumption it is some sort of immature prank. It is a serious, actual edit as well as an accurate translation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.228.21.40 (talk) 04:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I've seen a few Google hits that appear to say the same thing. However, is there an actual published source which says it? In order to be on Wikipedia, we need to provide a published source that confirms the information. See Wikipedia:Verifiability. --Elonka 05:09, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Concur with Elonka. The Japanese colloquialism isn't sourced, nor is the translation. The logical thing to do is remove both until reliable sources are found to support both, and I have proceeded to do the logical thing. Risker (talk) 06:11, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

How do you source a translation? Here is the google image search for kin no unchi in Japanese http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=%E9%87%91%E3%81%AE%E3%81%86%E3%82%93%E3%81%A1&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi. As you can see, it clearly is a golden turd. However, the colloquialism was not my edit and I cannot vouch for its veracity. That was there before I began to make edits; I only offered the translation. If any vandalism occured, it was not on this IP but on whoever put a Japanese word on the page assuming, correctly it seems, that the editors would not doubt it as correct or bother to look up the meaning. Removing the colloquialism until proof is found does seem to be the best course of action. But to have it without the translation is useless. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.228.21.40 (talk) 06:17, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I note, in going back through the history of the article, that the English "translation" first showed up in early 2006, and it was some time later that the Japanese version was entered into the article. The English "translation" has been the subject of more editing than anything else in the article. Since the information isn't sourced for either language, it's probably best to just leave it out unless someone can come up with a source. It isn't all that unusual to find a "translation" source, given the number of resources written in English that discuss Japan and its businesses. Risker (talk) 06:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Did you people bother to look? Try finding a source before removing unsourced stuff, eh?

• http://www.tokyoarchitecture.info/Building/4125/Asahi_Super_Dry_Hall.php "It is in this spirit that the work of art has the very popular nickname: The Golden Poo ("O Gon No Unko.")"
• http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ek20050217wh.html The Ask Us section of the Japan Times, not an editorial or a comment - "My Japanese friends refer to Starck's creation as o gon no unko (the golden turd), and tourists frequently ask for directions to the unchi biru (poop building). "

as well as about a thousand blogs, which of course are useless as sources but generally ahve some version of "in Tokyo, which my (guide/taxi driver/host) told me was called the Golden Poop by the locals." KillerChihuahua^?!? 10:29, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Variations on the expression I've found include "Kin no unko" (金のウンコ), "Unko Building" (ウンコビル), and "Kin no unko building" (金のウンコビル) Searching for スーパードライホール (Super Dry Hall) and 金のウンコ brings up a lot This for instance... I hadn't heard that all citations need to be in print now, but the Chihuahua has shown some pretty reliable online sourcing. But if print is needed, Here is a book, "東京現代建築ほめ殺し" ("Killing Tokyo's Modern Architecture with Praise" - or something like that-- my Japanese is far from fluent), whose full title is "東京現代建築ほめ殺し: 「ウンコビル」から巨匠の代表作まで" (the above, with "From the 'Turd Building' to...") Also within text we have other such as: ウンコビル "Turd building". All in all, I think it's fairly safe to say that the "turd" thing is verifiable, and not vandalism. Dekkappai (talk) 18:59, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "OR" plus consultation with a native informant of Japanese tells me that this is indeed [something like] the golden turd building, where "golden" stands for 金の (kin no) or less commonly 黄金の (ōgon no), "turd" for ウンコ (or possibly うんこ, unko) or less commonly うんち (or possibly ウンチ, unchi), and "building" for ビル (biru). Even ignoring the less likely kana variants, that's four possibilities already. Oh, and the "golden" part is optional, as Tokyo is free of any building that famously sports a giant turd of any other color (even brown). Problems multiply when you search for their romanized forms: influenced by FEPs (IMEs) for Japanese script, the final "n" of kin or ōgon may be doubled; the ō of ōgon may be simplified by the lazy or moraically challenged to "o", or rendered as "oo", "ou" or "oh"; the genitive particle no, usually preceded by a space, could be preceded by a hyphen instead; and indeed the whole string could be linked by hyphens. (Complications such as these aren't special to this phrase, they're endemic to romanized Japanese. Indeed, the complications here are relatively minor.) As for English renderings, my long-ago eleven-year-old self would have delighted in enlisting the help of Dr Roget to regale you all with more or less likely alternatives for "turd", but I'll spare you. -- Hoary (talk) 00:23, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for that breath of fresh air, Hoary. Dekkappai (talk) 00:41, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Well then, given all this I think it is safe to put it back in. Will be doing so immediately. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.228.21.40 (talk) 01:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

This kind of gives new meaning to the midas touch. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)