Talk:Anne de Parthenay

Jean V de Parthenay

Hi @CaroleHenson:,

First of all, my great thanks for producing the two articles you have done, its nice to not be the only person creating French Wars of Religion articles for a little time. I am a little confused though by the assertion in this article that Anne de Parthenay and Antoine de Pons were the parents of Jean V de Parthenay. Could you provide me a quote from your sources for that? As that's not what the Jean V article says. Moreover Jean V was born in 1512 which makes me sceptical the two year old Antoine de Pons was involved. Also if he was there son, he would have the name Jean de Pons due to the noble house being inherited patrilinially.

My understanding, is that Jean V is Anne de Parthanay's brother.

Kind regards sovietblobfish (talk) 05:54, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

He, Thanks for posting this so we ensure the information is correct.

• You said My understanding, is that Jean V is Anne de Parthanay's brother.

• The article says [Anne de] Parthenay's brother was Jean V of Parthenay, who was a leader during the French Wars of Religion.[6]" - basically, it has been hard so far to find something really specific, what I found from that source is the Jean and Anne had the same mother. I added some more pages to the citation.

Jean's article says in the infobox and then body of the article:

Parents: Jean IV de Parthenay The Archbishop, Lord of Soubise (father) Michelle of Saubonne (mother)

Relatives Anne de Parthenay (sister)

"Jean V de Parthenay was the only son of Jean IV, lord of the castle of Parc Soubise in Mouchamps, Vendée, lord of Pauldon, of Vendrennes, of the Goyau fief and of Mouchamps. His mother was Michelle de Saubonne"

This Jean does have some different titles, but Michelle is identified after her marriage as Madame of Soubise. In what way do you think there is a discrepancy? It might be easiest and fastest to say how you would reword the sentence in the article.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:40, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

And then use a source that has that content.–CaroleHenson (talk) 07:42, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Sovietblobfish, After thinking about this more, I searched more definitive statements that Jean V is the son of Jean IV, and didn't find it. I realized I hadn't worded this sentence properly. I reworded the sentence to: "Parthenay and Jean V of Parthenay, were children of Michelle de Saubonne." Does that work? Perhaps state that Michelle was the wife of Jean IV - with a citation about their marriage?–CaroleHenson (talk) 15:34, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Hi @CaroleHenson:. The sentences I am taking issue with in the article are as follows.

1) The infobox, which classifies Jean V as her child. Done

2) "Her son was Jean de Parthenay-Larcheveque, seigneur de Soubise. He married Antoinette d'Aubeterre and they had a daughter, Catherine de Parthenay, a patron to Huguenots. Like her grandparents, Catherine protected Huguenot during the clashes between the Protestants and the Catholics."

This section asserts that Jean V was her son, married Antoinette d'Aubetter, and that Catherine de Parthenay was her grandson.

Jean V did indeed marry Antoinette d'Aubeterre and their daughter was Catherine de Parthenay. However Jean V was the son of Jean IV and Michelle de Saubonne?

Therefore I find myself puzzled. Could you elucidate me on what your sources are saying in particular? sovietblobfish (talk) 15:52, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Sovietblobfish, I fixed item #1 here, definitely a mistake.

I think item #2 is correct. Isn't Jean de Parthenay-Larcheveque, seigneur de Soubise the son of Anne who married Antoinette d'Aubetter?

From the cited source: "Catherine de Parthenay (1554-1631) was the daughter of Jean de Parthenay- Larchevéque, siegneur de Soubise, and Antoinette d’Aubeterre. Her grandmother, Anne de Parthenay, had been among the handmaidens of Renée de France during her years in Ferrara, itself an important haven for French Protestants and Protes- tant sympathizers, including Calvin and Clément Marot."–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:05, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

@CaroleHenson:

I don't know if Anne had a son, but if she did it was not the Jean who married Antoinette d'Aubeterre.

The Jean who married Antoinette was born in 1512. This is well cited throughout his article.

I think your source has got confused I'm afraid.

Let me illustrate my understanding of the family tree involved here

Generation 1

Jean IV = Michelle de Saubonne, they had:

1) Child 1 - Anne de Parthenay = Antoine de Pons, no idea if they had children or not, if they did have a child, the child would have been patrilineally named as a de Pons, therefore I do not believe it could have been Jean de Parthenay. Perhaps they had a child named Jean de Pons and the author has got muddled?

2) Child 2 - Jean V de Parthenay = Antoinette d'Aubeterre, they had:

1) Child 1 - Catherine de Parthenay

sovietblobfish (talk) 16:13, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, that made it really clear for me. I removed the paragraph about the son here... and now need to check other related articles.–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:24, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Happy to help, I believe the information is also in the Catherine de Parthenay article.

sovietblobfish (talk) 16:25, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Great! Thanks so much. That really got tangled up. I also edited Catherine's article here. –CaroleHenson (talk) 16:43, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Anne date of death / French articles

No worries, do you have a date of death for Anne incidentally, according to the Jean V article

"In 1549, his mother died five days after the death of his sister Anne de Parthenay, wife of the Sieur du Pons." Unfortunately the book cited for that sentence doesn't have a page ref, frustrating. sovietblobfish (talk) 16:50, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Sovietblobfish I haven't picked that up yet. I will look for it. I am now going to the French articles for Catherine, Anne, Antoine, and Michelle to see what cited info that I can find there (e.g., skipping the uncited info - or finding a source for it if it's meaningful).–CaroleHenson (talk) 16:58, 23 June 2023 (UTC)