Talk:Ancaster, Ontario

Ancaster as a potential capital of Upper Canada?

According to a source from the Fieldcote Memorial Park & Museum, Griffin House National Historic Site, & The Ancaster Old Township Hall,

"The question of whether a number of places, including Ancaster, were ever seriously considered potential capitals seems to me alot like the reported number of houses and caves William Lyon Mackenzie is said to have taken refuge in! Or the beds in which George Washington slept!

We have no serious reason to believe that Ancaster was ever considered, and certainly are unaware of any primary source material suggesting that it was. I believe that nearby Greensville/Crooks Hollow may have been a more attractive potential candidate, because of the mills of James Crooks and others on Spencer Creek. But no reason to think Ancaster ever was". Kentjohnston (talk) 03:38, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi PeterRabbit. The September 1972 publication, "Ancaster The Past, Present and Future", a brief by The Ancaster Township Historical Society that you cited as a reference for information that Ancaster was once considered a potential captial of Upper Canada actually makes no mention of this fact. This 1972 publication does mention that Ancastrians 'first exhibited civic consciousness when aroused by the hope that their village might be chosen as a county town', in 1812 although it ultimately lost out to Hamilton. To be honest I was initially buying the Ancaster as a potential capital 'fact' except that your reason 'however due to its proximity to the American border it was passed over in favour of York' seemed highly illogical and appears to be 'personal research' without any source references. Then I discovered there doesn't seem to be any source material anywhere (other than Wikipedia) supporting the idea that Ancaster was ever considered by Lieutenant Governor Simcoe as a potential Upper Canada Capital? Thus in order to keep this Wikipedia Ancaster Ontario article as factual as possible, all references to Ancaster being considered a potential capital of Upper Canada should be removed unless someone can unearth some information to the contrary? This seems to be the standard 'if you say it enough times, it becomes truth'. Kentjohnston (talk) 13:49, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Indigenous population

What is missing is an account of the indigenous population of Ancaster from the last millenium(s) up to what first nations people early Ancastrians would have encountered on a daily basis in the late 18th century? Should this have its own Pre-History section or should it be included in the existing History section? I'm thinking probably a combination? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.14.34.197 (talk) 15:19, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

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Ancaster, Ontario moved to Ancaster, Hamilton, Ontario

I understand there has been a bit of confusion after I moved this page and a few other pages pertaining to communities/former municipalities currently part of Hamilton, Ontario. Ancaster is a former municipality that merged with the city of Hamilton, as did all other municipalities in the former Regional Municipality of Hamilton-Wentworth. Ancaster has since been considered a "suburb" or "community" within Hamilton, rather than a separate municipality. This is akin to many other municipal mergers in Ontario, such as the ones in Toronto. Pages about suburbs in Ottawa (municipalities that merged to form one city) are other examples which probably requires moving, but I will not get into that as of yet. For now I'm working on places like Ancaster in the Hamilton-Burlington area. EelamStyleZ (talk) 16:11, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

@EelamStyleZ: Please look at List of neighbourhoods in Toronto. Do you intend to change Liberty Village to "Liberty Village, Toronto"? Could you point to a section in WP:TITLE that would support lengthening "Ancaster, Ontario" to "Ancaster, Hamilton, Ontario"? As well, WP:MOSCAN#Places would not indicate a need to further disambiguate this article title. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 16:49, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

@Magnolia677: Your question indicates that you misunderstand the reasoning. Liberty Village needs no disambiguation in the first place. As I see on WP:MOSCAN#Places, former communities merged into a city qualify for renaming to "Community, City". In Ancaster's case, it just so happens that it is part of a city which itself requires disambiguation, hence the longer title. If you find another reason why the page qualifies to be moved back to Ancaster, Ontario (or simply Ancaster), I'd like to know. EelamStyleZ (talk) 17:01, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Then, according to WP:MOSCAN#Places, the correct article title should have been "Ancaster, Hamilton". Yes? Magnolia677 (talk) 17:14, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

You're misunderstanding the rule as well. A place does not automatically get forced to "Neighbourhood, City" disambiguation just because it happens to be within a larger city; it hinges on how Canada Post designates the community's mailing address. Mail going to Ancaster is addressed to Ancaster, not to Hamilton, so the province is the correct dab. Bearcat (talk) 18:08, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

• Move page back to its original title. Per WP:CANSTYLE, the standard rule for disambiguation of Canadian communities is not that the parent city's name is always required to be in the title — in actual fact, disambiguating populated places by province is preferred over the city whenever possible. Our standard rule for determining whether a place is "Ancaster, Ontario" or "Ancaster, Hamilton" is not strictly a question of whether it's a standalone municipality in its own right or a neighbourhood within a larger one — a place can be within another municipality and still generally understood as comma-Ontario rather than comma-Hamilton. Specifically, the Canada Post database of mailing addresses is the final authority on that question: mail going to Ancaster has a mailing address of "Ancaster, Ontario", not "Hamilton, Ontario", so the correct dab is "Ancaster, Ontario". And if a place passes the Canada Post test, the only other valid grounds for moving it to "Ancaster, Hamilton" would be if there were another Ancaster in Ottawa or Kingston or Sudbury or Thunder Bay that it still needed to be dabbed from. Which there isn't. Bearcat (talk) 18:04, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
• Revert name change. Most other neighbourhoods in Hamilton follow the Name, Ontario format. And as Bearcat mentioned, there are no other Ancasters so there is no need to disambiguate with , Hamilton. FUNgus guy (talk) 21:39, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
• Sorry, I already boldly reverted the change before seeing the latest comments. See my edit summary, which says "revert undiscussed good faith move that brought article name out of conformity to consensus at WP:CANSTYLE#Neighbourhoods/communities", which I assume is what Bearcat and FungusGuy are articulating above. I'll double-check my assumption after this post. Hwy43 (talk) 01:07, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

I've also reviewed the other undiscussed moves. I've reverted the move affecting Stoney Creek, Ontario. Some investigation should be undertaken regarding the moves of Glanbrook Township, Ontario and Aldershot, Ontario as well. Hwy43 (talk) 05:42, 19 March 2017 (UTC)