Talk:Alastair

• I think that the page is good but a bit biased because the spelling of Alastair is spelt Alastair when a more common version is Alistair. Mouseinthehouse 12:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

• The page does mention all variations of the name. Also this page has been vandalised but I have restored it to a previous version. Ajn91 12:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Biased

• I still think that the title of the page should be a more common version of the name. Mouseinthehouse 11:33, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

• Why does this contain bias? Please provide specific examples from the article. Also, please can Mouseinthehouse cite their source from where they get the information that Alistair is a more common spelling of the name than Alastair? What is a more common version of the name. I repeat that many versions of the name are listed in the article. Ajn91 19:57, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

• Alistair is a more common spelling in the UK at least. However this is based on slight mispronunciation. The phonetic English spelling closest to the sound of the Gaelic Alasdair is Alastair, and thus this is probably the best title for the page. The commonest form of a name is not always correct - until the rise to fame of Keira Knightley, the majority of people with that first name spelled it Kiera, whereas Keira is the correct Gaelic spelling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.34.88.126 (talk) 20:16, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

Number of variations

• The article currently says that there are 27 variations, but more are being added. Should the number be updated to the number in the list, re-researched (change reference) or simply removed? Comments... Ajn91 12:03, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Pronunciation, Orthography, Origin

Moved from the main page, as I think this is more appropriate here Rojomoke (talk) 17:59, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

The Scots Gaelic spelling Alasdair displays a peculiarity of Gaelic orthography. The third "a" is inserted in order to follow the rule "Leathan ri leathan agus caol ri caol" (Broad to broad and narrow to narrow) in regards to the two categories of vowels. (Broad a, o, u, and narrow i and e) That third "a" also allows the d to retain a hard almost t value...therefore the variants closest to the true Gaelic pronunciation are Alister or Alaster. I always believed the "air" pronounciation in the last syllable to be an English affectation. This is the first time I have heard of the name being a Welsh form. I would be interested to see supporting references on that statement. The Old Irish form of Alexander was "Alasdrum" which is the origin of the County Kerry surname McEllistrim and its variants. Modern Irish gives us "Alastar". The Scots surname MacAlister which spread to Ireland also is a fair phonetic equivalent to the Gaelic: Mac Alasdair (Alexander's son) ...MacSheumais (talk)

I partly concur. Alastair is an anglicisation of Alasdair. This is due to English confusion over the use of the letter 'd' in Scottish Gaelic. The Scottish Gaelic form of 'Alexandros' is Alasdair, while the Irish is Alastar. Alasdram is the Scottish Gaelic pet form, while Alastram is the Irish pet form. I believe the Welsh form to be Alecsandr or Alegsandr.

- Fionnagan (talk)

Thanks Fionnagan. I believe the popularity of Alasdair in Scotland arose from the fact that there were three King Alexanders in that largely Gaelic speaking Kingdom during the Middle Ages. It's spread through the rest of Britain is fairly modern. I have to object to the main article's calling the name a "corruption" instead of a form. Do we call "Alejandro" for instance, a Spanish corruption of Alexander? No, it is the Spanish version. Perhaps I am over sensitive to what seems to me to be an unconscious bias against the Celtic languages. Mac Sheumais

• "I always believed the "air" pronounciation in the last syllable to be an English affectation."

Right you are, "alla-stare" is a ludicrous mispronunciation :)

"Alastair is an anglicisation of Alasdair." That's not true. Variation between "st" and "sd" is purely orthographical it has no bearing on a word's pronunciation or etymology. Before the standardisation of the orthography of the Gaelic languages "st/sd" (and "sc/sg", "sp/sb") were used indiscriminately. Nowadays the regular forms in Irish are "st", "sc" and "sp" while in Scottish it's "st", "sg" and "sp".

The modern Irish form is "Alastar" (gen. "-air") /ɑləstər/ while the Scottish form is "Alastair" /æləstər'/. "Alastram" and "Alastrann" are variants.Murchadh (talk) 03:05, 28 November 2009 (UTC)