Talk:Administrative divisions of Ukraine (1925–1932)

What?

There were no such "administrative divisions" as subdistricts. Prior to 1925 huberniias were the highest divisions, then it were okruhas until 1930, then it were raions until 1932, then oblasts were introduced. It seems that the subdistricts described here were exclusively used for this census for statistical purposes. Kammerer55 (talk) 07:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

The lead appears to be making assumptions based solely on the census results. This article needs a secondary WP:RS that explains what the subject is.  —Michael Z. 21:25, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

I see that uk-wiki has articles uk:Поліський підрайон (Poliskyi pidraion) and uk:Правобережний підрайон (Pravoberezhnyi pidraion), but the content of these articles is purely census results.  —Michael Z. 21:29, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Also mentioned in uk:Перепис населення СРСР (1926)#Українська СРР.  —Michael Z. 21:46, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the links. I slightly improved the wordings in uk-pages. Interestingly, in another part of the census they divided UkrSSR into 4 raions instead of 6 pidraions. Generally, the census also used the term raion to divide Russia into large parts (those sometimes were separate administrative units, or often consisted of multiple okrugs and governorates). I also remember occasionally seeing the terms like "economic raions" when studying the history of Soviet Ukraine, but those also referred to large parts of the country and never were formal administrative divisions. Kammerer55 (talk) 00:56, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

The Historical Dictionary of Ukraine (2013):15 under “Administrative divisions of Ukraine” says In 1923, okhruhs (regions) and raions (districts) replaced volosti and counties, and in 1925 the division into gubernias was abolished. Searching for pidraion, podraion, subdistrict, and sub-district yields no results.

From the sources we have, we should treat these purely as aggregation units for census data, unless contradictory sources are found.  —Michael Z. 21:43, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Merge proposal

I propose merging Administrative divisions of Ukraine (1925–1932) into 1926 Soviet census. The content of this article is about subdivisions that are only mentioned in sources about the 1926 census, and there is no evidence that they were political or administrative divisions (actual divisions 1923–1935 were Okruhas of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, subdivided into raions).  —Michael Z. 21:59, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Support per above. Kammerer55 (talk) 00:17, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps merge as a subsection of Okruhas of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic might be better; that is, merging to a Ukrainian-focussed page, rather than the broader Soviet page. On that page, it could be seen as an alternative classification system used only or primarily for the census. Klbrain (talk) 15:24, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

There is no evidence that it was ever used for anything but the 1926 Soviet census. However, from the source, it does seem that the pidraions were only used in Ukraine. There’s no reason not to mention them in several articles, but the only one it’s directly relevant to is the census. Perhaps in the future we will get more insight on how they were originated and what they meant.  —Michael Z. 16:33, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Searching Google books and Scholar for Russian подрайон or Ukrainian підрайон shows that this term meaning “subdistrict” or “subdivision” is routinely used for organizing statistics in hydrology, geology, biology, economics, climatology, etc. It may have been used for the census and maybe for planning functions in the Ukrainian SSR and likely has no governmental or administrative significance.  —Michael Z. 16:49, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

• Support The only independent info is the aggregation of okruhas into subdistricts for census purposes.- Altenmann >talk 21:53, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Support There is no need to have an article on census subdivisions which can be adequately explained in the census article. GoldenBootWizard276 (talk) 10:23, 16 January 2024 (UTC)