Talk:ASEAN/Archives/2020

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Requested move 31 January 2020

Latest comment: 4 years ago15 comments14 people in discussion

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 09:46, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Association of Southeast Asian Nations → ASEAN – Per WP:COMMONNAME, ASEAN was referred by its acronym, not by full name, for example NATO and NASA 36.76.226.238 (talk) 10:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Steel1943 (talk) 18:56, 21 February 2020 (UTC)

Oppose - I dont believe the comparison is fair. NATO/NASA are ubiquitous and usually sources do not need to include the full name for those. In this case, most sources open with the full name and then use the initialism as a shortcut for later uses. ASEAN is already a redirect, so there is no impact on editors or searchers if we leave it status quo. -- Netoholic @ 15:01, 31 January 2020 (UTC)
Leaning oppose. I don't think it's quite true that ASEAN is usually referred to by its acronym. Rather, it is by people who already know what it is and by sources with target readerships that already know what it is, such as major internationally-read financial newspapers like the Wall Street Journal that write a lot about world economics and trans-national business. I agree with Netoholic that it is not actually parallel to the cases of NATO and NASA. People generally know what those are and do, without any need for knowing what they stand for. Meanwhile, ASEAN is apt to just be pronounced "Asian" (and the acronym, really a backronym was chosen for that meaning synergy in the first place). That makes it a WP:PRECISE and WP:RECOGNIZABLE problem especially for users of screen readers (MOS:ACCESS). — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 05:23, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

I don't think discussion about article title has anything to do with accessibility, we can put {{distinguish}} in this article as hatnote. Hddty (talk) 10:47, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Support, per WP:CONCISE. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 09:24, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Support per WP:CONCISE, ASEAN was referred by it's acronym, not it's full name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.137.171.220 (talk) 09:49, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
Support. We already use acronym in other article such as ASEAN Summit and ASEAN Free Trade Area. Hddty (talk) 10:47, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Weak support This article title can changed to simply ASEAN, but the infobox and lead needs to retain long form name as Association of Southeast Asian Nations and IPA pronunciation of ASEAN needs to include in order to disambiguate ASEAN from ASIAN, which pronounce same in English. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 36.69.56.176 (talk) 14:44, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Oppose. This is nowhere near the recognizability and common usage level of NASA/NATO. I wouldn't even be entirely sure what it was if you just told me ASEAN, so it fails WP:RECOGNIZE. And also for consistency with other entries in Category:Supranational unions, many of which have their own abbreviations such as EU for the European Union, but are titled at the proper full name. — Amakuru (talk) 18:18, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 20:33, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Support per discussion of OECD RM on their talk page. According to WP:COMMONNAME and WP:ACRONYMTITLE: "acronyms should be used in a page name if the subject is known primarily by its abbreviation and that abbreviation is primarily associated with the subject". Cf. OPEC, NATO, NASA, FIFA, etc. Therefore, ASEAN was refers by it's acronym in English, not the long form, even non-English speakers because long-form name only used when there was occasional situation. 180.245.214.207 (talk) 22:13, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Oppose – articles titles should not be at the acronym unless they are universally known that way, and this one's not. This one is nowhere near the level of OPEC, NATO, or the UN. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:48, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Support per many editors and IP users. ASEAN was well-known around the world and it's deserve to have it's acronym in article title, for example NASA, NATO, OECD, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.137.187.159 (talk) 13:59, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
Support. WP:COMMONNAME applies. In response to SMcCandlish's point regarding accessibility, "ASEAN" sounds nothing like "Asian". feminist (talk) 05:18, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Can't be bothered

Latest comment: 4 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

I can't be bothered putting this in the right section, but the pronunciation guide to @ASEAN' is utter nonsense. No one ever pronounces it like that, certainly not the media. Here's the OED with the correct pronunciation:

ASEAN, n. Pronunciation:

 Brit. /ˈasɪan/,  U.S. /ˈæsiˌæn/, /əˈsiən/

Someone correct it. Don't bother sending me a message as I won't read it.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.97.9.76 (talk) 18:37, 24 May 2020 (UTC)