Talk:2018 Chemnitz protests (version 2)

Merge proposal

The article contains numerous errors and is unnecessary, as all of the events are already described in 2018 Chemnitz stabbing attack--Greywin (talk) 13:21, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

This article has no errors, all of its details come from reliable sources. It is also properly structured. Neither of these things can be said for the 2018 Chemnitz stabbing attack page, which is improperly structured, has very few references - and most of these are not in English ("use English language sources where available") - and a less relevant name. As I initially proposed, that article should be merged to this one. Kingsif (talk) 13:42, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Greywin: Also note that the protests shouldn't really be discussed in an article about a stabbing, especially when there's more content on the protests than the stabbing. A stabbing that caused protests, however, is appropriate to include on an article about a stabbing. Kingsif (talk) 13:48, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Read the sources closely, maybe more detailed German sources. Your article fails to clarify the history of the events, especially the demonstrations. On Sunday there were two demonstrations, one of 100 people in the afternoon (AfD demonstration), 800-1000 in the evening (football/hooligan demonstration). On Monday there were again two demonstrations: 1500 against racism, 6000 of "Pro Chemnitz" (right wing). You are mixing it all up, which is completely wrong. And the new article has to be merged into the old. You can't create a new page and demand that the old page has to be merged into it.--Greywin (talk) 13:48, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

This article mentions the different sized protests. Perhaps they could be separated more, but I'm working on it. And it is perfectly allowed to make a better article and suggest old content be merged into it. I am not demanding anything, I am suggesting that since the older page has a worse name, is poorly formatted, and is unclear, the information it has that is not on this page be moved. Kingsif (talk) 13:51, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

So the formatting of a page is not decisive. False content is decisive. The name of the first page is the correct title. And if you want a page to be renamed you are not allowed to simply create a new one with a title which you think is better. This has to be discussed on the existing page!--Greywin (talk) 13:55, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

I didn't know that the stabbing page existed when I made the protests one, and didn't initially think of merging them until I read it and noticed the poor structure. As a merge proposal, obviously all information would be included, and that involves editors clarifying for accuracy. You are allowed to improve on false content (though, as even you said, it's not false, just non-chronological), rather than use it as a reason to delete a page. Kingsif (talk) 13:58, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Ok, see below. Merge the new material to the old page, to preserve revision history.--Greywin (talk) 14:00, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because it is not redundant - the protests are the main event, not the attack that caused them. The attack page should be merged and deleted. --Kingsif (talk) 13:34, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Also note that the deletion tag was added by the user who created the less-useful page and that this user removed the deletion tag from that page. Kingsif (talk) 13:36, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

@Greywin: You are not allowed to remove deletion tags from pages you created, and you did so. See reasoning above for merging 2018 Chemnitz stabbing attack to this page. Kingsif (talk) 13:37, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

You are wrong, the attack - a man died, two seriously injured - are the main event. There was no deletion tag, but a notability tag which was already unnecessary, because users added broad international reception. Remember that the version history of the older page has to be kept. You can also easily add your material to the existing article.--Greywin (talk) 13:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

The attack is barely covered internationally, the protests are (if you google "Chemnitz" from where I am, only the protests come up). Using broad statements like "you are wrong" is inappropriate, perhaps I am wrong in your opinion, but that means nothing. Kingsif (talk) 13:45, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

All articles about the events mention the also the trigger of the events, the stabbing, so you are wrong. To create a story about evil right wing protesters without mentioning the trigger, a murder, in an appropriate way is a historical misrepresentation.--Greywin (talk) 13:52, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

NPOV on "evil" there. Not all the articles do mention it, so I assume we're reading different things. A merge, as indicated would include all the information that you have on the stabbing. I would like you to use a more civil tone, as I am open to discussion. Perhaps a good compromise would be to merge the articles, but under a new title, perhaps "2018 Chemnitz violence" or something, that more obviously incorporates both the attack and protests. Kingsif (talk) 13:56, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Merging is ok, but the new page has to be merged into the first one to preserve the revision history. Afterwards the title can be discussed, I am also open for discussion.--Greywin (talk) 13:59, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Would you be open to me moving content and merging it into the pre-existing structure, then redirecting the "2018 Chemnitz protests" name to preserve this page's (if short) revision history? You are correct in this regard, as there are more edits and more users for the attack page. Kingsif (talk) 14:01, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

That seems ok to me, please move your (non-redundant) material into the first article while preserving the existing material at large. Then redirect the "2018 Chemnitz protests" name.--Greywin (talk) 14:09, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2018 Chemnitz stabbing attack which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:48, 6 September 2018 (UTC)