Talk:2007 Liberal Democrats leadership election

Possible, withdrawn etc.

Hughes has not withdrawn, as he did not enter! get your facts straight guys 213.246.186.24 13:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Instead of Possible Candidates and Other Possibe Candidates, how about Probable Candidates and Possible Candidates? 82.27.238.134 20:50, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I think the Other Possible Candidates section should be deleted as completly unsourced speculation. A confirmed candidates section can be created when appropriate but all candidates in the possible candidates section should have recent sources. Davewild 20:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

OK, so Possible Candidates has them all at the moment, and Confirmed Candidates is empty, or "none" - and Delete Other possibles? 82.27.238.134 20:57, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

BBC and Channel 4 have cited Steve Webb as possible, but I can't find anything online. 82.27.238.134 20:59, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Have found a reference for Steve Webb from The Times and moved him to possible candidates section. Davewild 21:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

David Laws' Wikipedia page says he's said he's not standing, but no cite is given. Anyone? Bondegezou 15:41, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Found it. Bondegezou 15:51, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

While I understand, he has launched his campaign, I suggest Chris Huhne should not be listed as a confirmed candidate until he's submitted the required paperwork/nominations. Bondegezou 15:44, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

That wouldn't really be that practical; except for the Returning Officer the first anyone else will know who has actually submitted their candidacy for consideration will only be known when the ballot papers are sent out. I think we have to go by the person concerned's own declaration on the subject. --AlisonW 18:16, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Individuals will announce when they submit their candidacies, so we won't have to wait for the ballot papers. The problem is John Hemming, who has said he will run (AIUI), but may not ever achieve sufficient MP nominations. How do we distinguish between him and the likes of Huhne/Clegg? Bondegezou 07:59, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, that is John for you! Last time around Mark Oaten was a self-declared candidate (indeed I was a nominator myself) but he then failed to get the support of sufficient MPs. I believe there is enough of a difference between saying they will run and stating that they are a candidate; the former making them a possible the latter a presumed candidate. --AlisonW 10:32, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Bondegezou 13:38, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Criteria for possible/ruled out

This is liable to be subjective - can we agree that all "Possible candidates" must have at least one credible media source listing them as a potential candidate, preferably profiling them.

As for "Not standing", was Lynne Featherstone ever seriously being considered? There's a danger this list will turn into every Lib Dem MP who either gets asked this question on television or who declares support for someone else on a blog. Timrollpickering 21:33, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree all possible candidates should have a credible media source mentioned since Campbell resigned. I think all the MPs we have in there at the moment do have such sources.

As to not standing, I would think that for now any frontbench Liberal Democrat MPs who have reliable media sources showing they have ruled themselves out would be acceptable as this would show media interest in them ruling themselves out. A personal blog as for Lynne Featherstone is weak and if there is no credible media pick up of this over the next day or so then would support removing her. Davewild 21:48, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I saw a media source speculating that Featherstone might stand. But then there was one speculating about Lembit Opik and most wouldn't say he's a realistic candidate. Might I suggest that Hemming not be moved to the confirmed candidates list until he has found sufficient nominations; remember what happened last time when he talked about standing but appeared unable to find sufficient support. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.181.80 (talk) 08:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's a couple of potential candidates being billed as dark horses - Julia Goldsworthy and John Hemming. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/10/17/nming317.xml I'm not sure whether to put them on the list on this basis. Timrollpickering 09:59, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I've just added Goldsworthy to the list, but I've now seen reports that says she ruled out standing to the BBC yesterday. I haven't been able to track these down yet... Bondegezou 10:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

The best reports I have on Goldsworthy's intentions so far are Guido's blog saying she's said she's not running[1] and comments in a thread at PBC saying the same.[2] Not really WP:RS... Anyone have anything better? Bondegezou 14:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Charles Kennedy

He's on the Daily Politics at the moment and is dropping hints that's he's "highly unlikely" to run, but wants to plough through all the correspondence he's received. But no clear cut ruling out just yet. Timrollpickering 10:35, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I was watching that too. I strongly suspect he'd walk it on the membership nomination side, but he's highly unlikely to get the MP nominations from those who stabbed him in the back last time. I think he is only likely to stand if enough (ie 7+) MPs tell him they want to nominate him; pressure from the membership won't do it. --AlisonW 23:28, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Is [3] sufficient to consider him as not standing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.99.181.80 (talk) 08:14, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Rule changes

Unlike at the last election, MPs can only nominate one individual.

When was this changed? And has anything else changed since last time - a bit on rule changes would be useful info. Timrollpickering 21:37, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Web references

Can I draw everyone's attention to Template:Cite web? It's a useful tool for setting out references to include data such as the publisher (with a link to their Wikipedia article), the date of the article, the date accessed and so forth. Timrollpickering 13:35, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Timeline needed

Can we get a timeline going at Timeline of events in the Liberal Democrats leadership election, 2007? I've created a shell on the model of Timeline of events in the Liberal Democrats leadership election, 2006. Timrollpickering 20:47, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

While with the Labour leadership elections it had gone on for years in the sense that there were disputes over what or whether there had been an agreement between Tony Blair and Gordon Brown on the issue back in 1994, and that it was 10 years after that Tony Blair had announced that he wouldn't be seeking to lead Labour beyond a third term - the whole media and internal party talk over it had been building since the 2005 General Election. In this case there have been fairly short intervals between the elections with separate articles for each leadership election, isn't it perhaps unneccessary in this case to have a separate article for the timeline given that there is less time anyway effectively to cover, or indeed is there not a case if there is to be a timeline for it to cover the leadership crisis since the 2005 General Election pertaining to however many leaders the Liberal Democrats happen to have between that General Election and the next one?--Lord of the Isles 21:22, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

The 2006 election had a timeline on the article itself that nearly swamped the piece until it was hived off. We can always merge 2007 back in, but it's easier to have it separate whilst the election is in process as it keeps the main article neater with all the updated info flying around. Timrollpickering 21:29, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Who's a "notable" supporter?

I don't really know... It makes sense to list certain notable supporters who are not MPs, Lords etc., but we equally don't want to add all and sundry. I added Parliamentary candidate (in a top LibDem target) Ed Fordham as one of Clegg's supporters, but Alison W removed him. I think she may well be right. On the other hand, my reasoning was that, if he's got a Wikipedia page, then he is prime facie notable. I previously added another Parliamentary candidate, Sal Brinton, as one of Huhne's supporters. She's got a somewhat higher presence in the party, but I'm not certain she's notable enough either. Anyone else got thoughts on this...? Bondegezou 19:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Past AFD consensus has been that parliamentary candidates past and future are not notable. So if there are such pages they should be AFDed not linked to. Timrollpickering 20:13, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

In order not to make our list original research we should only list people that reliable media sources have found notable enough to mention them. I don't think the candidates own websites should be regarded as enough to add them onto our list. Also our list of MP supporters needs to be updated - The Guardian has a list which includes quite a few MPs we have not got listed - here is the link [4]. Davewild 20:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I just added all those. —Nightstallion 00:26, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Clearly, a Parliamentary candidate can be notable (in a Wikipedia inclusion sense) for other reasons. Also, who is notable as a supporter in a party's leadership campaign isn't quite the same as who is notable as a person with respect to having a Wikipedia article about them. Without pre-judging any particular cases, there may be people who are significant figures within a party, whose support is significant for an election within the party, but who are not notable in a broader sense. I also disagree with the notion that we should rely on who reliable media sources happen to mention. We need well-referenced articles, but I see no problem with referencing a candidate's website if the information is pertinent. Bondegezou 11:32, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

How to describe campaign developments

The article, as it stands, lacks much narrative description of how the campaign has developed. I'd like to expand on that, but worry that I'm doing so from a biased perspective (being a Huhne supporter) and I'm struggling to find appropriately encyclopaedic and cited words for the subtleties of what's happened (e.g. disappointment in some quarters that Clegg, as the front-runner, hasn't shone more). Anyone else like to chip in here? Bondegezou (talk) 13:21, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Future

Is it too soon to start Liberal Democrats leadership election, 2008? ;-D Timrollpickering (talk) 02:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

I think the next one is the oncoming Labour leadership election! ;-) - Galloglass 09:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

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