Talk:1922–23 Cardiff City F.C. season/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Lee Vilenski (talk · contribs) 08:22, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Hello, I am planning on reviewing this article for GA Status, over the next couple of days. Thank you for nominating the article for GA status. I hope I will learn some new information, and that my feedback is helpful.

If nominators or editors could refrain from updating the particular section that I am updating until it is complete, I would appreciate it to remove a edit conflict. Please address concerns in the section that has been completed above (If I've raised concerns up to references, feel free to comment on things like the lede.)

I generally provide an overview of things I read through the article on a first glance. Then do a thorough sweep of the article after the feedback is addressed. After this, I will present the pass/failure. I will use strikethrough tags when concerns are met. Even if something is obvious why my concern is met, please leave a message as courtesy.

Best of luck! you can also use the {{done}} tag to state when something is addressed. Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:18, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Please let me know after the review is done, if you were happy with the review! Obviously this is regarding the article's quality, however, I want to be happy and civil to all, so let me know if I have done a good job, regardless of the article's outcome.

Immediate Failures

• It is a long way from meeting any one of the six good article criteria -  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
• It contains copyright infringements - No copyvio found Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)
• It has, or needs, cleanup banners that are unquestionably still valid. These include{{cleanup}}, {{POV}}, {{unreferenced}} or large numbers of {{citation needed}}, {{clarify}}, or similar tags. (See also {{QF-tags}}). -  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)}
• It is not stable due to edit warring on the page. -  Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:14, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Prose

Lede

• WP:BOLD is a bit weird here. I've seen some GA articles have no bold (like 1991–92 Arsenal F.C. season or 2006–07 S.L. Benfica season), some bolded like this one (like 1892–93 Small Heath F.C. season), and some bolded with the title of the article, such as 1920 Buffalo All-Americans season. I prefer either nobold, or title bold. Any idea if there is a proper way this should be done? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

In all honesty, your guess is as good as mine. I bolded the part I did as it's the closest form of the title I could get in the opening, happy to change if there's a preferred method. Kosack (talk) 15:50, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

If there's no consensus, it's fine. Might be a question for WP:FOOTY. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Looked it up, there is a style guide on this at Wikipedia:WikiProject Football/Club seasons, if you could meet that, I'll promote. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:12, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

I've reworded the opening to be more inline with that MOS. Kosack (talk) 13:25, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• Should probably link Association football. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Done
• Entering the campaign, Cardiff were considered one of the strongest sides in the division but - division, but, Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Done
• Cardiff were the reigning holders of the Welsh Cup having won the 1922 final in the previous season. - redundant. The "won the previous year" bit is usually used to say who they beat. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Removed
• No away colours? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Away kits were much more of a rarity in this era and there's no sourcing I can find that refers to alternate shirts being worn and what colour they were. Kosack (talk) 19:39, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

No problem. I assumed as much, but thought I'd checked Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 10:57, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Background and preseason

• Is pre-season not hyphinated? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Our own article would suggest not. Kosack (talk) 19:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

• Club captain Charlie Brittain was quoted in the South Wales Echo commenting, - Commenting is irrelevant. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Removed
• The Times expressed a similar confidence prior to the start of the campaign stating that Cardiff possessed - This is a little clunky, it suggests that The Times were confident of the sides performance, similar to the South Wales Echo, however, nothing says they were confident. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) -Reworded
• Was there an author for the Times article? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

No, unfortunately The Times simply attributed articles to "our football correspondent" during that era. Kosack (talk) 19:18, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

First Division

• The match was described as "disappointing to watch" as the warm weather proved draining to both sides. - direct quotes should be cited and stated by whom. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• "Brace" is jargon and should be linked Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Linked
• 2 September, Cardiff suffered a 3–2 defeat in front of 50,000 spectators - Should this not be 2-3? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

In British football, it is more common for the score to be written in favour of the team being mentioned rather than a home/away basis. Kosack (talk) 19:26, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Well exactly, is this not right, considering you are mentioning Cardiff, and they were defeated? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:04, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, I explained that poorly then. What I mean is, the team is the focus not the scoreline, so you would say "Cardiff lost 3–2 in the game" for example, so the sentence is geared toward the club rather than the scoreline. It would be odd to say "Cardiff lost one three in their last game". I believe the American style of writing generally prefers the scoreline to be home away based but Biritah English doesn't. Kosack (talk) 12:37, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

I couldn't find a single MOS on this, which I was suprised about. I've seen a lot of the snooker sources write this way. No worries. I have one more issue, then it's ready to promote. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:11, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• Len Davies, the previous season's top scorer, - League top scorer? Club top scorer? Including cup matches? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• Cardiff recovered by beating Villa 3–1 in the reverse fixture on 8 September. Considering this is directly after the Spurs match, "reverse fixture" seems odd Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Reworded
• A goalless draw against Birmingham was followed by a 1–1 draw against the same opponents on 11 November,[7] despite Cardiff playing "at a great pace, which would have beaten many teams" - quote needs attribution. Who said this? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• Third paragraph is huge! Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Split
• It was believed that he was still suffering effects from a bout of pneumonia earlier in the season. - pneumonia isn't a common word, needs linking Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 16:49, 21 August 2019 (UTC) - Done

Cup matches

• Cardiff entered the competition in the first round, being drawn against Third Division South side Watford at home. - What competition? headings aren't supposed to be used in this way Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Done
• Jack Evans scoring Cardiff's goal after converting a penalty. - Seems like a lot of words. What about "Cardiff's Jack Evans scored a penalty equaliser/opener? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Trimmed
• The teams met again on 17 January 1923 for a replay but neither side emerged victorious for a second time as the match ended in a 2–2 draw. - Obvious for a football fan - this was a replay, but not everybody would understand that a draw meant another game. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• A second replay was needed, being held at the home ground of Aston Villa, Villa Park on 22 January. - Why? Obviously needs to be a neutral venue, but to the regular reader, this won't be noted. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• Having been eliminated by Tottenham Hotspur the previous season, Cardiff were drawn against the side again in the 1922–23 season - "in the third round", season is implied. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• Gill and Jack Evans - consistency. Either use only last names, or both full names. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

The reason for the use of first names with Jack Evans and Len Davies is due to the fact that there was more than one player on the the team with the same surname (Herbie Evans & Ben Davies). All four players played regularly during the season so saying "Evans scored the goal" could mean either player. Kosack (talk) 06:25, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Whoops! My mistake. I didn't really check the names. Fine. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:05, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• Cardiff entered the competition in the fourth round as reigning holders having defeated Ton Pentre in the 1922 final. - Same with this, mention what cup it is. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• Len Davies, Gill and Reid - onsistency again. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

See above. Kosack (talk) 06:25, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• The match was described as "hard-fought", Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• What is FAW? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• The match generated £450 in gate receipts - wikilink £, perhaps a conversion to present day money or dollars as appropriate Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Added
• Is the location of the refs usually in the subheading? It looks weird. I would prefer it in the column headers for each table, or better yet, having a sentence explaining the results above the key. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

I've added a table heading to each results section now and moved the references there. Kosack (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

ideal Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 11:05, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• In Result column, Cardiff City's score shown first - This is really weird wording. Could easily be a sentence. Also, why is Result capitalised? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Reworded

Player details

• Duplink for Jack Evans. There's also the same for Joe Clennell and Len Davies earlier in the article Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Removed
• Jack Evans made more appearances for Cardiff during the 1922–23 season - than whom? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Fixed
• Billy Grimshaw who had made the lost appearances the previous season - typo? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC) - Fixed
• Fred Mason, Vince Jones and Billy Turnbull - if notable should be linked, if not, don't link in table. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

All of the players would meet WP:NFOOTY so are linked. Kosack (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• prompted The Times to describe Cardiff's poor form as "the mystery of the season" during the campaign - Who from the Times? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

No author in The Times articles of the era unfortunately. Kosack (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

• This belief proved well founded as Cardiff went on to finish as runners-up in the First Division, missing out on the title on the final day of the season through goal average. - Goal average? not goal difference? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, goal average was used in this era rather than the goal difference used today. Kosack (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

GA Review

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

• Automated note - If you fancy returning the favour, I have outstanding GA nominations that require reviewing at WP:GAN. I'd be very grateful if you were to complete one of these, however it's definately not manditory. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 07:17, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski: Thanks for picking this up. I've addressed all of the points listed so far. Let me know if there's anything else. Kosack (talk) 08:23, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Kosack - sorry for the delay - Managed to put a lot on myself. I've added a few things Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:12, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@Lee Vilenski: No problem, thanks for finishing up. I think I've addressed all of the issues above. Let me know what you think. Kosack (talk) 06:38, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

No worries. I had to change the lead slightly as per MOS:BOLDAVOID, but other than that, it's good. Promoting. Thanks for your quick responses. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 13:37, 25 August 2019 (UTC)