Talk:1878 Queensland colonial election

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: No consensus. I initially closed this discussion as rename to Queensland colonial election, 1878, but on reflection that was a bit premature, so I reverted. There is agreement that the current title is inappropriate, but I don't think that there is any consensus yet on the alternative. I was going to relist the discussion, but since there is clearly a need for a solution which applies to pre-Federation election articles, that would be better pursued by a centralised discussion, possibly an RFC. I suggest that WP:AWNB or WT:AUSPOL might be suitable locations. Would the nominator like to open a discssion? -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:23, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

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Queensland state election, 1878 → Queensland colonial election, 1878 – The use of the term "state" is an anachronism. In 1878, Queensland was not a state of a federated Australia that did not exist at that time. Queensland was a British colony. The term "state" would not be used by contemporary sources. While I have not listed all pre-Federation election articles of Australian colonies in this RM, this discussion could be (and perhaps should) used as a general forum to discuss these articles. Relisted. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:23, 5 February 2014 (UTC) Mattinbgn (talk) 00:09, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree that "state" is entirely inappropriate, but do we need "colonial" in the title? Queensland election, 1878 seems clear and not likely to be confused with anything else (any by elections would use a distinctively different title). Nick-D (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Good point and it begs the question - is "state" necessary in post-1901 state election titles? Perhaps Victoria, but the other states? -- Mattinbgn (talk) 09:04, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Possibly not, but there is potential for some confusion between state-specific aspects of federal elections and state-level elections which the terminology avoids. Nick-D (talk) 10:02, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Queensland Legislative Assembly election, 1878 could work. Hack (talk) 00:48, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Yes, Queensland election, 1878 seems the obvious solution here. HiLo48 (talk) 10:04, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Good pick-up. Somecolony general election, 18xx and Somecolony parliamentary election, 18xx would be the other options – plenty of precedent for that. The latter option has a nice "colonial" ring to it. Whatever we pick, I would be in favour of applying it to all pre-Federation election articles. IgnorantArmies 13:35, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

More on moving ...

As I created the articles (and several others for other years) and it's on my watchlist (automatically), I am a bit puzzled why I didn't receive any notification of this discussion on the talk page. For the record, I created the article(s) by the current title(s) because there were already redlinks in articles (many but not all via Template:Queensland_elections) using those titles.

I agree that Queensland (and all the other colonies) was not a state before federation. However, I would note that many Australian articles/categories etc do not seem to regard the pre-/post-federation distinction as important. There are numerous articles and redlinks to people with the article title Fred Nurk (Australian politician) or with the lede sentence "Fred Nurk was an Australian politician" for people who died before federation and therefore were never Australian, but Queenslanders or wherever else (of course some resided in more than one state -- many of our early Queenslanders came via NSW). I also note that Queensland categories are in Australian categories, even though some Queensland articles may relate to subjects that entirely pre-date federation. For that matter, all of Queensland was in New South Wales until separation in 1859. Should Brisbane (which was a populated place before separation) therefore be in Category:New South Wales (directly or indirectly)? This is looking like a can of worms.

But back to the original question, the title of this article. Personally I think if we change it, it should be "Queensland colony election, 1878", because it was a whole-of-colony election, as we did have elections in Queensland that weren't the whole of the colony, e.g. the 6-electorate election of 1865 that arose because they increased the number of electorates mid-term (I have no idea if other states had these "partial" elections) and of course the many by-elections. I note that the 1865 election isn't listed in the Template:Queensland_elections), but should it be or shouldn't it be?

But I agree this is a larger conversation that should be had as it affects all states and their pre-federation elections etc. Kerry (talk) 22:49, 5 February 2014 (UTC)

I think that the points raised in the second paragraph deserved to be discussed on a page with more viewers than here. Hack (talk) 01:47, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, but where ...? Kerry (talk) 05:54, 6 February 2014 (UTC)