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Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements/PTG/Archive 1

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Latest comment: 3 years ago by DePiep in topic 2021
Archive 1

2021

Latest comment: 3 years ago21 comments2 people in discussion

So, a major problem. Additionally, the category scheme recently changed, so I've set up a new subpage for the 2020 scheme. Someone needs to set up a page for the 2013 scheme as well. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Why keep old scheme's, except for illuistration., We don 't need them to design do we? "2020" is all. -DePiep (talk) 11:42, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
Likely for historical reasons. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 13:03, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
Yes. "Alkalimetals2018" does it. -DePiep (talk) 17:45, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 4 briefing

See Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2020 for examples:
  • A color set be defined & controlled through a set-definition page, like: Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/set/2020.
  • The blind table can now easily be colored through {{Periodic table/ptg-blind|set=2020}}. Must be 2020 chemical cat scheme, will improve later (so one can change, as in eswiki: "Po is OM here").
  • I did not disrupt the header (I hope). What do you think about this pages-&-header ideas:
1. Each set definition (2020, 2021a) gets its own dedicated page (as 2020 has right now).
2. These are listed & linked in one theader tab (ie, current Scheme page).
3. The other header tab can be freed/removed/used for development discussion (eg comparing 2020 and eswiki). I find it not easy having to check two pages before I find part of the 2020 discussion/descrtiption.
4. Less improtant pagelinks can be improved in the header too.
Todo: the blind legend can read set definition too. Will happen.   Done
If you have other examples you want to see, please say so (dewiki?).
Any tech ideas/suggestions?
Have a nice edit, -DePiep (talk) 22:15, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

LP03 color set, 28 Dec 2020

@LaundryPizza03:: only now, I saw your proposal in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements § Category colors. You want me to make a full page for it, here? It's ~free :-) Set name like "28dec2020", or "LP03-28dec"? -DePiep (talk) 16:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2020a. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 18:21, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

blind PT, '32-column' impression

  • A question, LaundryPizza03. I have created the blind PT into the "32-column" form, then removed some columns. My idea is to give the complete PT impression for this purpose. Do you think it is a good idea to evaluate the color sets?
See {{Periodic table/ptg-blind/sandbox}}. -DePiep (talk) 20:49, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Yes, since the table displays formats where f-block is inline (as in the navbox) without being too wide. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 20:51, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
(editconflict) ...or shall I make a blind PT in 32-column form like the navbox is? {{Periodic table (navbox)}} -DePiep (talk) 20:53, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
jargon clarified: yes, f-block in line is the "32-column" form, f-block below is "18-column" form. -DePiep (talk) 20:56, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Dedicated "setname" page naming

  • PizzaLaundry03 This idea: rename dedicated pages like "/PTG/eswiki" into "/PTG/categories/eswiki", so that we can handle them better, automatically & systematically. Like? OK but not "/categories/..."?
  • I have added "STATUS" and "DOB" options to standard the set options [1], are there more useful ones? -DePiep (talk) 19:28, 6 January 2021 (UTC)
(sorry for the miswrinting of your name ... LP03)
  •   Done Per set, the dedicated dscription & checking pages is now, like: "/PTG/categories/2020".
See /PTG/categories/..., should show all sdt-pages.
-DePiep (talk) 22:39, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 6 report

  • Dedicated page, like for "2020a", now in subpage /categories/ pattern Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2020a.
  • Added top parameter to the Sets: |DESCR (already there), DOB, STATUS, LOG=.
  • ...
-DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 7 report

  • Created template "set-list" (short form of the Schemes page). Used in TPG-header (instead of big /scheme page block).
  • Created template "set-links": aline of links for eg "dewiki". Nice below the TOC I'd say.
  • Contrast table: added columns Lum, HSV, hue color show, RGB-decimal. Option |hsv=no for blank cells
  • dewiki SoM: uses full red, blue! (not green then), and grey d8d8d8. Set definition edited.

LP03, if you have any questions or things that can help: tell me. -DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

-DePiep (talk) 21:15, 7 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Note to LP03: I think it is OK to choose a bit meaningful ID for any set. So, "2020a" could easily be "2020-light", "2020-lighter" or "2020-wl-AAA" (no spaces I suggest). I seriously will work to keep all info within reach. -DePiep (talk) 21:51, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 8 report

-DePiep (talk) 22:48, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 13 talk

  • Hi User:PizzaLaundry03User:LaundryPizza03, sorry again. What, do you think, should we do first with this PTG?
Announce PTG at WT:ELEM (open up)
Stabilise these pages (less edits, & less moving around)
Propose at WT:ELEM to get rid of those State-of-matter fontcolorng
Discuss/evaluate your "2020a" CAtegory proposal?
-DePiep (talk) 21:33, 13 January 2021 (UTC)
  • Recent changes, here at PTG:
The topic Categories (with headertab) now has its own talkpage.
The topic State-of-matter now has its own page, headertab and talkpage (issue is at hand).
Ping User:LaundryPizza03. -DePiep (talk) 23:29, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

Jan 25: Up for Archive

I think about archiving this thread. The topic Categories is moot, and it is about initial development of this taskforce. -DePiep (talk) 21:35, 25 January 2021 (UTC)

2019–2020

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

much to do. -DePiep (talk) 21:08, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Indeed, it needs updating now that we've gone back to the 2010 scheme with no "unknown" category (albeit with a lighter color for the alkali metals.) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 11:30, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Basic analysis

Latest comment: 3 years ago9 comments2 people in discussion

LaundryPizza03, I'd like to establish a list of analysis & checks we want to do for any color set. For example, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Elements/PTG/categories/2018 has some parts. Every set ("2018", "2020", "2021-A") best have its own page. Analysis:

  • Set id "2018"
  • Science needs (like number of categories)
  • Design principles, notes, descriptions
  • List of categories + their colors
legend with it (blind?)
blind table with it
  • A11Y contrast-checking (w3c) categories
vs. black font, wl-blue font
vs. State of Matter (SoM) font colors
add dummy text PT
  • A11Y Color Blind checks
External sitye to use?
  • Distinction checking
Can reader distinct category from neighbour? (by hexagonal graph?)
-DePiep (talk) 17:58, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
I got to the hexes. There are currently 3 blank pages for potential proposals, which I have dubbed 2021a, 2021b, and 2021c. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
I see great setup improvements. I want to
(1) together develop a set of criteria (w3c contrast, color blind checks, distinction check); on page PTG
(2) build automated set-building (instead of c/p +set-edit all PT's & tables). For example module:PT graphics, standard blind table only to enter |set=2020b ;-) . Time-consumming...
-DePiep (talk) 09:55, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Hexagonals

LaundryPizza03 I creted the hexagonal graph to be able to look for the colors themselves, not to recognise a PT. That is, when PT-experienced readers (like us) see a PT, we tend to use patterns, subconsciously, we already know. In this case: category knowlegde. So I left out texts ('blind'), and the known category pattern. I also turned the pattern into vertical, all to disrupt our pre-knowlegde and focus on color configuration (eg neighbours, recognistion) only. I call this check "distinction", as we want colors so that the reader can distinct diffferent categories=colors, from each other, into, and from legend. -DePiep (talk) 10:11, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

... and now I found your 2020 one ;-) -DePiep (talk) 10:14, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Color blindness

  • I started with colorblind filters (Coblis site). I made three CB-filtered prints of the hexagonals (downloaded images). But I am not sure about copyright status, so did not upload to Commons for now. I contacted the webowner for clarification. -DePiep (talk) 16:08, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Recognition and distinction of map colors

For now, it is quantitative only. It is the opposite of w3c Contrast checking, as it asks for more extreme colors. Contrast conformance, OTOH, leads to more pastel/bleak colors (good for contrast, bad for recognition). -DePiep (talk) 18:31, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Color list

Why can't we create a module to automate the generation of color lists in the style of {{Element color/example}}? –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:55, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

The module I was working on has too much requirements. I'll make template, based on set. ([3] is too complicated to handle).)
Which column do you expect?
Order nr, Cat abbrev, cat name, bg color box, color rgb triplet, note(opt). -DePiep (talk) 18:29, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

Categories

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I was proposing the following category tree for this project:

–LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 19:59, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

I have made this overview section: /PTG/resources#TPG_templates.
It has various sub-listings (like /set/...). Unfortunate, not for the main set pages (/2020). Could do that.
If you add the cat with <noiclude> it might work (check for broken pages). (Do not add trailing spaces; the < should be immediately after final code character).
Not sure if I will use the category, major page lists should be in the header I guess. -DePiep (talk) 20:12, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
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