Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling/Tour de France task force

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Combativity infobox

At least the last two editions of the Tour have the combativity included in the infobox. Should this be done for the rest of the Tours? Perhaps this is a question for WT:CYC for all races to include it. BaldBoris 15:21, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

I think I did this... and more. BaldBoris 13:12, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Request for information on WP1.0 web tool

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Best source for final GC standings

@EdgeNavidad: I'm having a bit of a headache over the final GC standings. Recently, I changed all the refs from MdC to histo.letour.fr or the official website of the edition. Upon checking '71 I've reminded myself that with histo.letour.fr there are many discrepancies with the times. tourdefrancestatistieken.nl seems to be the most thoroughly checked. There's quite a few places that have published the final GCs, but they all seem to match. My first guess is that the contemporarily published official standings haven't included bonuses. What do you think? Anyone else is of course welcome to have a say. BaldBoris 01:35, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Hmm, tough one. If the goal is to have 'true' final standings, then tourdefrancestatistieken.nl is the better one, because they calculate the standings based on stage times, time bonuses, penalties, and even show a list of unaccounted differences. But even though it might be the most accurate, most detailed, best-sourced Tour-site around, it is basically a fan-site. And even though I think it is very reliable, I doubt if it is considered a reliable source in Wikipedia terms. On the other side, the site from letour.fr just shows a list of times, that somebody probably typed in a long time ago when the website was set up, and I can see no attempt of completing/checking the information. But it is the official site, published by Amaury Sport Organisation, so I guess it easily counts as a reliable source on Wikipedia.

Maybe a work-around is to list them both a sources, with a note that tourdefrancestatieken.nl has minor corrections? --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 07:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the latter suggestion. I believe we are free to determine that a usually more reliable source is less reliable in this case. Another option would be to contact the creators of the Tour website and ask them to check their information. But I doubt we'd get any reply, I tried this once but never got a reply (I even wrote them in Google translated French since I know that the French tend not to like English too much...). We can also always check upon contemporary newspaper sources and cross-reference that way. Zwerg Nase (talk) 08:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

As the data can be conflicting we must choose just one. Although they are not exact (can never be that anyway), I do feel that if the times are good enough for the Tour/ASO to put out to the world then surely they are good enough for us as well...? The current site of letour.fr/en/history useless to us as the 'pages' are not static and linkable, but it looks to be a modern clone of histo.letour.fr, the reason I went with the latter. So the choice is between official or the possibly more accurate unofficial. Which ever we go with they'll be an issue. Zwerg, that's a big ask which I can't see happening. BaldBoris 13:05, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I know. I am quite disappointed that they still do not provide information such as jersey progress on their site (at least for older editions), even though they surely have the information and it would be easy to implement. Thereby forcing us to find third-party sources... Zwerg Nase (talk) 14:52, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Miniature jerseys in classifications

Should we add those? Like a green jersey next to the name of the winner in the general classification table and so forth? 1989 Tour de France has them, 1962 Tour de France does not. Zwerg Nase (talk) 08:40, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

I think they are not very useful, and mostly decorative. But I don't care enough to remove them myself. EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 14:25, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

Reliability of Tour de France books

We have a list of books with information on the Tour. In a recent FA-review, the reliability om some of the books was challenged. I think it would be good if we should only advice books that are reliable... For convenience, I put the list below:

Augendre, Jacques (2016). Guide historique [Historical guide] (PDF). Tour de France (in French). Paris: Amaury Sport Organisation. Archived (PDF) from the original on 17 August 2016. Retrieved 19 October 2016.

Bacon, Ellis (2014). Mapping Le Tour: Updated history and route map of every Tour de France race. Glasgow, UK: HarperCollins. ISBN 978-0-00-754399-1.

Cossins, Peter; Best, Isabel; Sidwells, Chris; Griffith, Clare (2013). Le Tour 100. The Definite History of the World's Greatest Race. London: Octopus Publishing. ISBN 978-1-84403-723-0.

Dauncey, Hugh; Hare, Geoff (2003). The Tour De France, 1903–2003: A Century of Sporting Structures, Meanings and Values. London: Frank Cass & Co. ISBN 978-0-203-50241-9.

Laget, Françoise; Laget, Serge; Cazaban, Philippe; Montgermont, Gilles (2013). Tour de France: Official 100th Race Anniversary Edition. London: Quercus. ISBN 978-1782064145.

Leonard, Max (2015). Lanterne Rouge: The Last Man in the Tour de France. New York: Pegasus Books. ISBN 978-1-60598-786-6.

Liggett, Phil; Raia, James; Lewis, Sammarye (2005). Tour de France for Dummies. Indianapolis: Wiley Publishing. ISBN 978-0-7645-8449-7.

McGann, Bill; McGann, Carol (2006). The Story of the Tour De France, Volume 1: 1903–1964. Indianapolis, IN: Dog Ear Publishing. ISBN 978-1-59858-180-5.

McGann, Bill; McGann, Carol (2008). The Story of the Tour De France, Volume 2: 1965–2007. Indianapolis, IN: Dog Ear Publishing. ISBN 978-1-59858-608-4.

Moore, Richard (2014). Étape: The Untold Stories of the Tour de France's Defining Stages. London: HarperSport. ISBN 978-0-00-750010-9.

Reed, Eric (2015). Selling the Yellow Jersey - The Tour de France in the Global Era. Chicago: University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-22620-653-0.

van den Akker, Pieter (2020). Tour de France rules and statistics: 1903–2020. Self-published. ISBN 979-8689654751.

Wheatcroft, Geoffrey (2013). Le Tour. A History of the Tour de France. London: Simon & Schuster. ISBN 978-1-4711-28943.

Woodland, Les (2007). Yellow Jersey Companion to the Tour de France. London: Yellow Jersey Press. ISBN 978-0-22406-318-0.

Why are they reliable sources? I thought I'd just start a table (feel free to edit):

Book	Reason for reliability
Augendre2016	Published by Tour organizers.
Bacon2014	Published by recognized publisher
Cossins2013	Published by recognized publisher
Dauncey2003	Published by recognized publisher
Leonard2015	Published by recognized publisher
McGann2006	? (Publisher mentioned in WP:SPSLIST)
McGann2008	? (Publisher mentioned in WP:SPSLIST)
Moore2014	Published by recognized publisher
Reed2015	Published by recognized publisher
VandenAkker2020	? (WP:SELFPUB)
Wheatcroft2013	Published by recognized publisher
Woodland2007	Published by recognized publisher

For now, a "recognized publisher" means that it is not in the list at WP:SPSLIST. I can give no reason why the books by McGann and Van den Akker are reliable. I read them, and McGann's books have as far as I can see only minor inaccuracies, and Van den Akker is very complete and has only some editing issues, but I don't think my personal opinion really counts. Do we have better reasons why they are reliable? If we do, please add them (it would make article reviews easier), if not, we should remove the books from the list... --EdgeNavidad (Talk · Contribs) 10:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Tour de France Femmes

Hi all, you should add Tour de France Femmes to your 'task force' - the article is in reasonable shape imo. Turini2 (talk) 08:36, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

The 2022 edition is now a good article :) Turini2 (talk) 20:34, 13 June 2023 (UTC)