Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga/Digimon/Archive 4

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Old AfDs

I'm trying to "archive" Digimon Articles for Deletion here at Wikipedia:WikiProject Digimon Systems Update/AfD archive. If you know of any others please list them there. Feel free to change the format or whatever, as I've really just thrown them up there for now. -- Ned Scott 23:06, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Missing Images

I'm working through the Digimon articles in order of appearence in the Digimon Visual Dictionary to add kana (and infoboxes) where missing. As I go I've been compiling a list of articles that are missing images (I've already added a few missing ones and taken them off the list), but was wondering if we oughtn't have a centralised list, either on a subpage or as a section on the project's to-do list? I have a fair amount of source material - the Visual Dictionary has images of all Digimon up to at least partway through Frontier and I also have the V-Jump Koushiki Daizukan for the previous series (were any books or mooks ever released for Frontier? I've never seen any), I just need to make the time to scan them etc. Shiroi Hane 21:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I suggest tagging all of them as part of Category:WikiProject Digimon Systems Update images (or something similar). Then you can just view the category to see all of the images. --日本穣 Nihonjoe 22:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I've thrown something rough together at Category:Digimon articles in need of images. Shiroi Hane 15:23, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

WikiBot for WP:DIGI

I've been looking up on how to run a WikiBot for some of our more redundant edits and tasks. I've created NedBot and he is currently awaiting approval per Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approvals. Check out his user page for examples of tasks it would do. If you have any more suggestions of things we could have the bot do, please list them. -- Ned Scott 21:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

WP:BOTS is requesting additional input on the use of NedBot for Digimon edits. Please join the discussion at Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approvals#NedBot. -- Ned Scott 16:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

NedBot is still awaiting approval. I think the Bot approvals group is waiting for more input from our WikiProject about Digimon edits. If anyone else can leave a comment on Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approvals#NedBot it would be greatly appreciated and will likely speed the approval process. Thanks. -- Ned Scott 22:20, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

references and sources

I was getting some ideas from Pokémon Collaborative Project (I know I know, Digimon and Pokemon are different. But they are similar in that both WikiProjects are dealing with a great many of "monster" creature articles that have information from animes, mangas, video games, and card games.) I noticed they used a generic reference/ source message at the end of their articles, (WP:PAC/S#References and External links), and thought this might be a good idea for us as well (with less emphases on video games, as most of our information seems to be taken from the anime or card game). Thoughts? -- Ned Scott 22:56, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

des-digimon ??

Anyone know what's up with these Digimon? Desmon, Des-Tyrannomon, Des-Ogremon, Des-MetalGreymon, Des-Meramon, Des-Devimon, Des-Airdramon. The only real info on these articles is "It is from the Italian manga." Sounds like they're "unofficial" and non-canon. -- Ned Scott 05:12, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, depend on your definition of "official". We're talking about a franchise with dozens of "canon" that can be followed, here, and theyare not even all that consistent when *are* in continuity. But then, they should probably be best merged with the manga page if it exist. Circeus 14:59, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

"des" is probably a mis-romanisation of "death". Shiroi Hane 13:37, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Des is indeed a translation of Death. Possibly translated that way because there was already a Deathmon, but not a Desmon. Anyhow, they were supposed to appear in C'mon Digimon, which was never made. There is essentially no information about them, but they are probably in the same fashion as the Chaos digimon -- that is, they are not new digimon in and of themselves. Blue Mage

C'mon Digimon... never made? Bullshit. C'mon Digimon came out before the anime, even before V-Tamer. It was a oneshot pilot manga by the artist and writer of V-Tamer. A pilot manga is a "test" manga to see the response and to try things out. C'mon Digimon is best known for it's incorrect Digimon designs, which is the result of the mangaka not having any of the artwork, and having to refer to the LCDs from the V-Pets. The Greymon from C'mon Digimon is widly believed to be the basis for V-Dramon. The manga was republished in V-Tamer Volume 2, I do believe. Deathmon, in C'mon Digimon, is basically a Digimon that can transform into any other Digimon. Those Digimon are identical to their normal selves, but have Deathmon's head instead. The manga WAS published in Italian, but it's not an Italian manga. WtW-Suzaku 07:28, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I think he just mentioned the wrong title by accident. -- Ned Scott 07:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

For whatever reason, the fandom came across the Italian localization of the manga before they did the original Japanese version. The Italian version had no qualms about changing things around; Bun became Bunomon, if I recall correctly, and his attack was changed. In the case of the Des Digimon though, I suspect it was a simple mistranslation -- they probably had no idea DESU was Death. There is a little bit of information on some of these Death Digimon, but not much. IMHO, it would be best if the links in List_of_Digimon were all renamed to their proper translations, with (C'mon Digimon) differentiating Death Meramon and Deathmon from the normal Death Meramon and Deathmon, and either add the little information available on them into the existing articles, or merge it into the C'mon Digimon article.

For the record, Death Airamon, Death Devimon, Death Metal Greymon, Death Meramon, and Deathmon, in my encyclopedia. And I guess I wasn't paying attention when I did that, because Death Tyrannomon has Death Beam for an attack. Also, there is no Des/Death Ogremon -- someone who owned a popular digidex saw Death Airdramon, and apparently not being able to read Japanese, thought it was Death Ogremon. This, as far as I know, is the source of all the Des Ogremon stuff. There is no Des/Death Ogremon in the C'mon Digimon manga or anywhere else.

C'mon Digimon was published in the second volume of V-Tamer, and it was created in 1997. I don't know of any reason why it wouldn't be canon was its own little universe, other than the designs of the Digimon hadn't been finalized yet, so some look different than their later counterparts -- Greymon looks a great deal like V-Dramon, for example. At any rate, the Deathmon in C'mon Digimon was capable of changing (the term used is Change in English) into Death versions of the Digimon he defeated, and they appeared in the battle between Kentarou (that's a long Japanese o - it was dropped in the Italian localization) with his partner, Bun, and Shinichirou and his partner, Deathmon. Shining Celebi 01:30, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team cooperation

Hello. I'm a member of the Version 1.0 Editorial Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. We recently began assessing articles using these criteria, and we are are asking for your help. As you are most aware of the issues surrounding your focus area, we are wondering if you could provide us with a list of the articles that fall within the scope of your WikiProject, and that are either featured, A-class, B-class, or Good articles, with no POV or copyright problems. Do you have any recommendations? If you do, please post your suggestions at the listing of all active Hobbies WikiProjects, and if you have any questions, ask me in the Work Via WikiProjects talk page or directly in my talk page. Thanks a lot! Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 05:52, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Quick question on names

Have we made a formal decision on English vs. Japanese name? I thought we used English names. If that is indeed the case, I'd move Oryxmon (for which I cannot find any proper references, I'm pretty sure it's some sort of made-up name) to it's proper location and change the refering links. Circeus 18:55, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd very much be for the Japanese names. After all, not all of them even have got English names... —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 22:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd mostly want a confirmation for that one, since I've never seen it refered to as "Oryxmon" ever. For the most part, as this is the English wiki, I say we stick with English names whenever they exist, as is currently mostly standard pratice. Circeus 23:10, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

He has been referred to in English as both Oryxmon and Goatmon. Oryxmon is the more recent name, though I unfortunately cannot locate the point at which it changed [1][2]. Nor do I know which is "more" official.

We primarily use the official English-language names on the English wiki, no matter how stupid they may be (iirc they corrected Kerpymon/Cherubimon for Frontier at least), although the Japanese equivalent should always be given for reference (and, in the case of article names, redirects created). Oryxmon doesn't ring a bell, but wasn't there an armour digimon called Goatmon (possibly one of Gatomon's armour forms?) Shiroi Hane 23:50, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

(ach, you beat me to it Circeus) OK, helps if you actually read the articles in question first... according to the article Oryxmon was used in the Frontier dub. Since we never got the dub here I've only ever heard an illicit ep or two so cannot confirm anything, other than that the original name was definitely Goatmon. There was a US Goatmon card, bo-247 from series 5, but I don't have that particular card (which is annoying since, while I don't like the designs of the US cards past series 2, I thought I had all of Gatomon's armour forms :\) Shiroi Hane 00:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Shiroi, if you give the article a quick look, you'll see it does discuss exactly that digimon (the armor evolution of gatomon through the Digi-egg of Hope). The question was whether Oryxmon was the proper English name. I think the fact the name changed at some point should be referenced in the article. Circeus 00:05, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

The Tempusmon situation

Please make sure you have the following pages on your watchlists and monitor them closely:

• Tsukaimon
• Piddomon
• Lordholyangemon
• LordHolyAngemon
• Tempusmon

DylanAqua (talk · contribs) and several anons in range 63.232.* (listed below) keeps modifying these with non-canon lines and Tempusmon/LordHolyAngemon references

Involved anons (possibly all from a dynamic IP range, and I strongly suspect that they are actually DylanAqua):

• 63.232.51.40 (talk · contribs)
• 63.232.23.250 (talk · contribs)
• 63.232.122.203 (talk · contribs)
• 63.232.127.227 (talk · contribs)

Circeus 02:14, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

• 63.232.23.229 (talk · contribs) (surfaced earlier today) Circeus 21:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)
• 63.232.124.8 (talk · contribs) another one -- Ned Scott 22:10, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
• 63.232.124.74 (talk · contribs)

Has anyone at least tried to explain to the user why his changes are being reverted? 3bulletproof16 23:48, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

I did leave a message on DylanAqua's talk page a while back asking him to not remove the {{citeneeded}} templates. Also, since a lot of the edits are being made while he's not logged in, it's hard to say if he's even checking his talk page. It has been noted that the edits were reverted as non canon in many of the edit summaries. -- Ned Scott 05:39, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I just remembered I have a few volumes of V-Tamer. While Holyangemon does not appear to be in any of the chapters I have, he is in the character list at the front which calls him simply ホーリーエンジェモン (I can scan it if you like, at least when it's not quite so late..) Are you aware of any source for Tsukaimon > Piddomon? It's not in the cards that I can see, but I don't have access to many of the games/V-Pets so wouldn't know if it comes up there. Shiroi Hane 01:26, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Even if it was sourced, it is not a "canon" line (e.g. not part of the plot of any manga/anime), and should npot be listed as this user (it's obviously the same) does. Circeus 01:25, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

d'Arcmon or D'Arcmon

While testing some replacement stuff with NedBot I noticed it was replacing d'Archmon with D'Arcmon. Anyone know if there is a correct version? -- Ned Scott 00:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Considering the article is at D'Arcmon anyway, I don't think it makes such a difference in the end. Circeus 00:39, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

well, that's just a technical issue with Wikipedia capitalizing the first letter anyways (which is why NedBot corrected it. He was making sure things like metalgraymon linked to MetalGraymon). -- Ned Scott 01:30, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

At the moment the article contains a mix of both d'Arcmon and D'Arcmon. I personally think they should all be d'Arcmon. Shiroi Hane 01:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll set the bot to make corrections to d'Arcmon then. -- Ned Scott 03:32, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

The problem with Frontier characters is that, to my knowledge, Shueisha did not publish any Koushiki Daizukan books for the series and, other than the Digimon Visual Dictionary (which does not include romanised names and only covers Digimon from the start of the series), I've not seen any books which cover Frontier so there is little reference material. Shiroi Hane 11:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Additionally, many Japanese sources which *do* contain romanised names have got them wrong; I was very active in Digimon fandom for quite some time -- might still get back to that some day -- and I can tell you there was a sizeable chunk of people who preferred to use names which made sense over those which were the "official" romanisations... ;) —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 00:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

If the name is based upon an original English name, d'Arcmon because the d' is always made small (see Jean de Rond d'Alembert, for example). x42bn6 Talk 07:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Digivolutions

I just wrote a long discourse (or a rambling mess, depending on how you look at it) on the problems with how evolutions and evoltion lines are handled at the moment but it failed to save so I have to start again... The infobox talk page says to only include 'canon' information, but does not make it clear what is considered canon. It also states that you should only use 'from' and 'to' for digimon with no canon lines, but should the other possiblities be discarded even if there is a 'canon' line, and what about those who only have a partical complete line or multiple 'canon' lines? Should every digimon on a particular line show every other possibility from that line? e.g. Botamon's page lists both MetalGreymon and Skullgreymon as ultimates, but Gigimon's does not include Megidramon - which is correct? Also Pururumon's page doesn't list Hawkmon's Armour forms, and Hawkmon's page doesn't list Aquilamon's jogress.... Shiroi Hane 01:05, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I've noticed this problem too. Bandai seems to like to change these things a lot. I was just thinking about the whole Digmon thing in that Digimon Savers appearance. Maybe less emphases on the card game data might help to eliminate a great deal of variables. Also, it probably should be noted on all the articles that there really is no set evolution, as Bandai might explain it differently in a future Digimon product. Heck, most information on the articles aren't really clear if it's about the Anime version, card game version (and which card game), video game, manga, etc. (as well as noting that a Digimon in one appearance is usually an unrelated character to the other appearances). I guess we need to revisit the layout and be a bit more specific on some things, as well as addressing unusual data. -- Ned Scott 09:01, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Digmon.. it was unfortunate that in the Savers episode they did not state Digmon's level - the 02 Digmon was an armour, but I'm assuming the one in Savers is more likely to be an Adult. Shiroi Hane 12:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, that still means an Adult Digimon evolved into another Adult Digimon... Mh. Muy estraño... —Nightstallion (?) ^{Seen this already?} 17:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Speaking of canon and non-canon things, does anyone know what's the deal with the attacks edits made by the anon 203.82.169.142. -- Ned Scott 09:53, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

I can't see anything particularily wrong with any of the edits I've looked at, although I can't necessarily verify all of the information they've added. Shiroi Hane 12:13, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

True, neither could I verify them. We need verification for this. --Siva1979^{Talk to me} 08:33, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like video-game attacks to me, maybe that can help us narrow the search. -- Ned Scott 11:24, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Badomon or Budmon

I've previously only heard Raramon's Baby II form called "Badomon," but the Digivice IC page calls it "Budmon." I don't want to start a new page without knowing which page to make, but the code is here: User:Blue_Mage/sandbox.

Also, I should point out that the newest cards introduce new families, including Dragon's Roar (such as GeoGreymon), and Jungle Trooper (such as Sunflowmon). -- Blue Mage

From what I could tell from the Wikipedia edits, no one ever cited a reference for "badomon". I think Budmon, actually having a source of info (from the Digivice iC), would be the one to go with. -- Ned Scott 05:30, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Badomon is simply the most obvious romanization of the name. Budmon makes a lot of sense given the lineage. On the subject of the new cards.. has anyone seen scans of the option cards? Shiroi Hane 06:55, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Black*mon

Not long ago we had a series of Black 'mon articles deleted. Recently someone re-created one of these, namely BlackGarurumon, which was soon [speedied] on the strength of the previous AfD. Now, only a few days later, the wretched thing is back again... are we agreed that, like -X 'mon, the majority of the recolours (with exceptions like Blackwargreymon and the renamed ones like like Tsukaimon, Mikemon, Clearagumon etc), which only differ by attribute and attacks, should not have their own articles or should this be tested by AfD again? Shiroi Hane 19:14, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Part of the problem is that the page is still linked to, I'lljust make it a redirect for now.If things come to worse, the page can be protected.

What about ShadowWereGarurumon? Apparently the name is canon to the Frontier dub, however I cannot confirm or deny as it was not aired here. Shiroi Hane 20:51, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess probably the best way to handle it would be to just make these articles as redirects. The articles are probably being created in good faith. A redirect not only lets the reader know that the information is on another 'mon's article, but also tell this to the editors as well. Thinking back on it now, that's probably what should have been done in the first place. -- Ned Scott 05:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Fictional X categories

Adding these categories to Digimon articles is considered vandalism. They are to be removed on sight. Circeus 20:21, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Why? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 21:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

By precedent. See this diff for an example. Numerous others have also been so removed (notably on the devas' articles) Circeus 00:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, Renamon isn't a "fox" as such... x42bn6 Talk 01:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, is there a reason? Don't get me wrong, I don't think these categories are a good idea (because they're arbitrary), but you need to have a reason other than "We don't like them," in order to convince others. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops)

I'm also a bit confused on this issue. Vandalism would imply the categories were defacing the articles. If we want to remove them simply because they're stupid cats, that's fine with me, but it doesn't seem like vandalism. -- Ned Scott 04:43, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

It'sjust the same as the fanon "filled-in" evolution lines that we constantly have to remove. Repeated improper editing is considered vandalism. Circeus 14:19, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

But you haven't offered a reason that the editing is improper. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Unless I am mistaken, it has to do with WP:CAT and the unnecessity of flooding Category:Fictional animals when Category:Digimon is already sorted in Category:Fictional species. Overall, I think it makes sense if only for the difficulty of sorting several of them (e.g. Does it really make sense to sort Veemon in Category:Fictional dragons, and where should Elecmon go?). Maybe it's just me though. Circeus 14:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Polls are evil; I deleted it as unnecessary, especially given that nobody is making a case that the fictional X cats are good.

Anyway, that's an excellent reasoning, and I plan on stealing it to convince people, if necessary, to do the same in Pokémon articles. Just remember that it doesn't help to say that something should be done. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:09, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Right now, Pokemon are sorted into animal cats, but digimon were removed by Hu,as pointed out earlier. If I spot aditions or leftovers, I'll remove them. Circeus 02:28, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

*sigh* Non-canon evolutions strike again

Can somebody a bit less cranky than I am right now go through User:MajinNecro69's recent contribution and give him a warning on proper use of the digivolution lines? Circeus 00:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I take it that it's been a rough day? I'm sure it's a simple misunderstanding and that no harm was indented. If you are reading this Majin, I should explain:

With so many articles and so many possible evolutions coming from video games, mangas, animes, and so on, it's hard to keep "canon" information intact. To help make things simple the infoboxes and Digivolution sections of articles should contain mostly evolutions seen in the animes and mangas. Card game, video game, etc, evolutions should be noted separately, or for the infobox, be noted in the "from" and "to" section. However, even this can still sometimes be confusing, as noted in the above discussion #Digivolutions. Template talk:Infobox Digimon and /Digimon layout helps explain this a little bit more.

Don't let Cireus scare you, he's actually a nice guy. And don't let this little incident keep you from editing. We all make mistakes, and this really isn't a big deal.

On another note, Majin is one of the few that is actually providing source URLs for the images uploaded. Thank you! This is a very important thing to do. For one, it helps other Wikipedians take the Digimon articles more seriously when we follow guidelines, and two, it helps avoid situations such as the one with Toko.jpg. -- Ned Scott 05:22, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Also, in both /Digimon layout and in the articles we could make it a bit clearer that the sections are for canon lines, as well as what is considered canon. Again, noting the discussion above #Digivolutions -- Ned Scott 05:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Digimon semi-protected

I semi-protected the page totry and deal with a massive streak of vandalism from anon users. Circeus 02:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Orphaned article

if found this orphaned article called Digimon Savers plot summary. Can you guys deal with it? - The DJ 14:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

done Apparently, we forgot to update the main article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Circeus (talk • contribs) .

It was once linked to the main article, but then taken off since I thought I had jumped the gun in splitting the article so soon. I've seen made it into a redirect. Most likely it will be useful later on. -- Ned Scott 02:01, 17 May 2006 (UTC)