Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Peer review/Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss

Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss

The article has been quickly improving ever since it was the collaboration of the week. It just became a Good article, so I am looking for feedback on how it could achieve Featured status. Any suggestions would be appreciated. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 22:46, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Comments from Levi
Prose/Layout/Style

Lead

• The lead is composed of four relatively small paragraphs. Could it be condensed to 3, given the size of the article?

I've done a quick merge of the first and second paragraphs.

Gameplay

• "...in a streaming 3D environment." - What's a streaming 3D environment? Might be a little too much for non-gamers, especially as it's the first sentence in the section.

That was there to distinguish it from earlier "3D" dungeon games, like Dungeon Master. These were actually 2D, but gave the illusion of being 3D. You're probably right about it being over the heads of non-gamers, however, so I've removed it.

• "curser" should probably be "cursor". Same for "precurser".

Woops, fixed.

• "When a character gains enough experience points through combat, quests and exploration, it levels up, increasing hit points and mana." - The character is referred to as "it"—"he or she" might be better.

Done.

• "Mantras are found in the game world, through conversation, notes or markings on walls." - Should probably have a comma after "notes".

Actually, that sentence was something I'd forgotten to fix until just now. The reference actually doesn't contain that information, so I've rewritten it to be in line with what it says. Thanks for pointing it out, though; it jogged my memory.

• "straight-forward" probably doesn't need a hyphen.

Done.

• "Both ranged and melee weapons are present." - "Available" may be preferable to "present".

Done.

• "Some weapons possess different attacks types of attacks depending on where the cursor is held..." - First "attacks" unnecessary.

Done.

• "...with effects ranging from causing the player character to fly, to summoning earthquakes." - Probably don't need that comma here.

Done.

Plot

• Should Ultima IV be wikilinked?

Done, and VI while I was at it.

Development

• "Among the first hirees were Doug Church and Dan Schmidt, who had just graduated from MIT." - Might read better as "Some of the first employees of the new company included Doug Church and Dan Schmidt, who had just graduated from MIT."

I've adjusted the sentence.

• "After this, the team began pitching a thirty second demo clip of the game, eventually settling on Origin Systems in the summer of 1990." - Pitching to who? Potential publishers?

Yes. Fixed.

• "The team agreed, and the game was renamed Ultima Underworld." - This rather uncontroversial sentence has 3 inline citations. One would probably be sufficient.

Fixed.

• The fifth paragraph is mostly one big quote. Maybe a little quote template like {{quote}} or {{rquote}} could help.

That's true, but two of the quotes are from completely different times. One is from the early '90s, the other from 2002. If you have a suggestion on how I could combine them, I'd love to hear it; the paragraph is pretty heavy on the quotes.

• The Development and Legacy sections both have quite a few little paragraphs. Could they be condensed? If Legacy is condensed, should it be a subsection of Reception?

I'll work on this. Those sections are both huge, however, so it'll take some time. I'll update here when it's done. Update: Done. Even the reduced Legacy ended up being too big to turn into a subsection, however.

Ports

• "EA denied the suggestion, but allowed him to look for possible developers..." - "Rejected" would probably be better than "denied" here.

Done.

• IZO Interaction should probably be wikilinked, even if it's red. It seems notable enough to warrant its own article.

Done.

Reception

• "...causing Origin to lessen the game's marketing support." - "Decrease" might be better than "lessen".

Done.

Comprehensiveness

• Since this game is part of a series, the infobox could include a wikilink to it.

Done.

• The infobox lists Paul Neurath as a lead designer, but in Development, only his name is mentioned (and not wikilinked), not any mention of his job or background. Same with David Kushner in Legacy.

Done.

• Are there any more reviews? Are there enough to justify a reviews infobox? That template has an Awards section too, which might be useful because it looks like the game won some.

Well, here's the problem. I know for a fact that this game was reviewed by more magazines than what I have here. The thing is that, somehow or another, every one of them has fallen through the cracks. I've tried every way I can to find them. As usual, the Magazine subproject is of little to no use. Google and other methods have also come up with nothing. They're reliable magazines, but most of them long dead with no way to get them, even through online collectors or eBay. I just can't find them. I do plan on giving this section some expansion at some point, though, so when that happens I'll see if there's enough material for a reviews infobox.

Ya, I know finding reviews for old games is tough.

Sources

• "Ultima Underworld is set in the Great Stygian Abyss, an area that first appeared in Ultima IV." - Should have an inline citation.

This is actually covered, along with that entire paragraph, by citation 10. If you think it needs to be cited for clarity, though, I can do it.

Nope, good enough.

• "Though Origin advanced the company $30,000 to create the game, the eventual cost ballooned to $400,000." - Is this covered by the #15 citation a few sentences later?

Yes.

• "Space Rogue "took the first, tentative in exploring a blend of RPG and simulation elements, and this seemed to me a promising direction" said Neurath in 2002." - Took the first tentative what?

Fixed. It was "steps". I was typing that in manually, and I guess I missed a word.

• Some of the references are incomplete (#20 and 34 have no publisher, for instance).

Fixed.

Images

• I think the rationale for that screenshot is fine, but do you think it'll be busted in FAC because it's not low-resolution?

Yeah... I'm kind of worried about that. The FAC people are vicious when it comes to possible copyright infringement, but honestly, I think the eyestrain and loss of clarity caused by an actual-resolution screenshot outweighs that. It's not like anyone ever saw it at that size on their monitors, anyway; it was always blown up even bigger than what I've got there.

Well if it comes down to it, you can just upload a smaller one I suppose.

As you can see, most of these comments are trivial. I think the prose is great for the most part, along with the sources. Just about ready for FAC, in my opinion. Great work! — Levi van Tine (t – c) 09:10, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

• Thanks! JimmyBlackwing (talk) 11:18, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

I took another look at that quote paragraph, and I can't really think up a better format for it. It's probably fine as-is. — Levi van Tine (t – c) 10:38, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Why is there Category:FM Towns games and Category:NEC PC-9801 games in the article but no mention of those ports in the article? Do they even exist? --Mika1h (talk) 21:25, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

• Those are there because they used to be in the infobox. I searched around and couldn't find any reliable sources confirming that they exist, so I removed them. The Categories were left over from that, and are now also gone. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 21:12, 23 March 2009 (UTC)