Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Discoveries/Log/2008/November

Newly discovered, November 2008

{{NewCaledonia-bio-stub}}

No problem with this one other than it being unproposed - it's nicely made and upmerged appropriately. A keeper, IMO. Grutness...wha? 07:49, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

• Keep, Don't we have a proposal some where in the archive for all foo-stub, foo-bio-stub, foo-geo-stub and foo-politician-stub for any "country". Waacstats (talk) 10:48, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Very probably - and i've just reproposed the same for foo-stubs at WSS/P. This is only really here because it's one we hadn't been aware of before. Grutness...wha? 23:40, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

{{SouthAfrica-radio-station-stub}}

Unproposed stub type for radio stations in South Africa. There's been a quiet but quite welcome uptick in the creation of articles for radio stations in Africa and {{Africa-radio-station-stub}} was approaching the magical number of 60 for the creation of Category:African radio station stubs when a bold editor created this new stub type. After careful combing of the African radio station stubs, there are currently 27 tagged as South African and 27 more tagged for other African nations. I believe this is close enough to the 30 threshold to keep the new stub type and rapidly approaching the borderline for a new continent-level category. - Dravecky (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Note that the creation of this was implied in recent discussions about South African media stubs (the upshot of which was to create a Category:South African media stubs and any necessary templates for tv, radio, and film). It's mentioned in passing at both the proposal page and at SFD. In any case, keep. Grutness...wha? 06:30, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

I see now why my search came up dry: the SFD discussion explicitly calls for -tv and -film stub types but only implies the -radio-station stub type and the proposals page never mentions any specific templates at all. Also, this one isn't on the main list o' stub types so its inclusion here is probably for the best in any case. - Dravecky (talk) 07:39, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Good point. More or less a legit creation, but not yet listed as such, so better safe than sorry. Grutness...wha? 07:59, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Bihar-stub}} / Category:Bihar stubs

Unproposed general stub type for an Indian state. We have similar stub templates for other states, so that's not much of a problem. The category, however, may be another matter, since there's no guarantee this will reach threshold. It may need upmerging (if not, it needs some finessing - it has no permcat parents and no standard templating). Grutness...wha? 10:55, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Montserrat-footy-bio-stub}}

Well enough formed, though sadly with its own (somewhat inappropriate) stub category. Needs upmerging to Category:Caribbean football (soccer) biography stubs, since this will never get close to threshold (unless 1/60 of Montserrat population each has a football biography stub). Grutness...wha? 00:27, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

{{IRC-stub}}

Newly created (without proposal), and linked to a permcat rather than a stubcat. Not sure how useful this would be - I suspect it overlaps with a lot of existing stub types. If it's useful enough to keep it will need to be re-pointed to a more appropriate category. Grutness...wha? 23:43, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Actually this is an incredibly useful stub type and was even properly named. I discovered {{IRC-stub}} and this entry on WikiProject Stub Sorting/Discoveries while cleaning up the Internet Relay Chat categories, templates, and articles. This stub was previously dumping articles into the parent category under 'N', which was certainly not the right thing to do. I've since regenerated the stub and created a proper category for it as Internet Relay Chat stubs. The proper place for this stub and category in the stub types list is under the Computing and telecommunications section in the Internet stubs subcategory. Tothwolf (talk) 18:10, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Due to the backlog I've gone ahead and converted this stub type from {{MetaPicstub}} to {{Asbox}} and added it to the sub types list. It currently has 71 articles in the category and will undoubtedly grow even larger as I continue to dust out this corner of Wikipedia and categorize all the stray Internet Relay Chat articles. Tothwolf (talk) 20:13, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

{{Argentina-rugbyunion-bio-stub}}, {{Portugal-rugbyunion-bio-stub}} / Category:Portuguese rugby union biography stubs

Two new unproposed templates - both seem well-formed, and at least one of them will prove fairly useful, I'd think - so keeping them seems fair enough. Unfortunately, one of these comes with its own category, which will almost certainly not reach threshold, so upmerging is in the offing there. Ironically, the one without a dedicated category would be quite likely to reach threshold fairly soon, I would think. Grutness...wha? 00:24, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

• Keep templates and send cat to SFD unless it makes it to 60 (unlikely in my opinion).Waacstats (talk) 22:29, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Port-stub}} / Category:Port stubs

I was looking for a stub tag for a few articles about ports in China (PRC). I found this stub type in use on Port of Yingkou, but noticed it was not on the official list. I think this article is the right place to report this unofficial stub. {{Water-transport-stub}} seems the closest official stub-type that would work for a port article (ex: Port of Yantai, Port of Qinhuangdao). Should I continue to use it? —fudoreaper (talk) 08:14, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It is an official one - it's only just been made though which is why it isn't on the canonical list yet - the proposal is here - so feel free to use it, but note that it should be used in conjunction with PRChina-geo-stub or some regional equivalent. Grutness...wha? 22:46, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, cool, if it's official i'll go ahead and use it. And i gotcha on combining it with a geo stub. Should I add this (and the others just approved) to the master list? —fudoreaper (talk) 04:35, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure - it's very easy to forget to add things to the main list when they're made (I'm always forgetting, so I know how easy it is to do), so feel free to any that aren't on the list that have been approved. Grutness...wha? 04:57, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Okay, added. Properl, i think. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types/Transport Does that look good? —fudoreaper (talk) 08:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Yup - that looks good. Cheers. Grutness...wha? 21:59, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Iran-footyclub-stub}} / Category:Iran football club stubs

Brand new, and created seemingly with a SFR notice attached! No objection to the template, but there's no clear evidence that there will be the required number of stubs for a separate category (and given the number of articles in the permcat parent, it seems highly unlikely at present) - this may need to be upmerged to the Asian parent stub category. Grutness...wha? 11:49, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

• There is a proposal from september for templates for each country in the Asian football clubs, so template is OK. delete category unless it reaches 60. Waacstats (talk) 23:48, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Ohio-bio-stub}} / Category:Ohio people stubs

As below, so above. We seem to be fighting a losing battle against subnational region bio-stubs, which is a shame, given the complications they cause with people moving from place to place. This one was created less than 24 hours ago, and already has close to 100 articles, many of which are for people with only tentative links with Ohio (e.g., Anthony Hancock (American football), who could just as easily be a Missouri- or Tennessee-bio-stub); NYC resident Amy Braunschweiger, and Ontario-raised Ab DeMarco, Jr., whose potential list of subnational bio-stub templates would be fairly sizeable). Grutness...wha? 01:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Anothony was born in Cleveland, Amy was raised in Toledo, and Ab was born in Cleveland. Natives of Ohio are known as Ohioans. I created this stub after I saw the same had been done for Oregon, Texas, and Indiana. People born in Ohio, should be tagged with Ohio-bio-stub; there's no other way around it. If I lived in Texas, but was born in Ohio I'm an Ohioan not a Texan. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 02:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

You might sort them that way,m but can you guarantee that everyone will? Would, for instance, anyone instantly think of giving {{Connecticut-bio-stub}} to George W. Bush (if his article were a stub) - or would they be more likely to associate him with Texas?{{Texas-bio-stub}} certainly isn't being used only for people born there - how will you guarantee this won't end up equally mixed and problematical? Grutness...wha? 05:16, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I see no reason why Bush couldn't have have both stub templates? His talk page is covered by WikiProjects Military, Baseball, Connecticut, Texas, and Presidents. No one can control what tag someone on any wiki will use. Princeton says and Ohioan is someone who is "a native(a person born in a particular place or country) or resident(someone who lives at a particular place for a prolonged period or who was born there) of Ohio". Parenthesis mine. As long as the stub template clearly states who the template is for there shouldn't be a problem with the user interpreting its use. The reason there were almost 100 is because I didn't want to get this stub swatted down for not having enough members. I precompiled a listed to make sure (in my mind atleast) that there was a need, created everything and then out of the 700 articles I checked over I tagged 80 some. After typing this, I made another list. This list is a list of biographical articles (4 are sketchy and I need your opinion) that tranclude Ohio-stub or Cincinnati-stub. Would you agree that those articles should be Ohio-bio or in your opinion should they just be Ohio? Like I said above above: I'm new to the stub thing, I'm not trying to step on any toes. But at what point will we have to start cutting down Category:American people stubs? I thought 800 was a limit followed here, but I could more than likely be wrong. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 21:46, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Indeed it is - but from national level they're cut down primarily by occupation - there's just considerable undersorting of Category:American people stubs (it's always a hard one to keep to a reasonable size, given that there are tens of thousands of US-bio-stubs, mainly further sorted). Most of the subcats of this are for occupations. Grutness...wha? 23:40, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

One more quick note, I didn't say it could only be used for people born in Ohio, that's just what I started with. If someone has a stronger relation with another state I don't see why they can't be tagged with their home state and the state they connected with in other's minds. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 21:48, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

And there's the problem, and the reason why stubs like this aren't generally as useful as they initially seem. Take as an example Ab DeMarco, Jr.. He's played for teams from New York, St. Louis, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, LA, Boston, Edmonton - and was born in Ohio. That's potentially eight region-specific bio-stubs, even excluding the icehockey-bio-stub he would normally be given. Many other sportsmen and women are the same. Given that there's a maximum of four stub template per article, it's a toss-up which ones we should use so as not to get complaints from other editors for marking "our boy" with the wrong stub - the right state in one person's mind may not be the right state to others (there's a "state of mind" joke waiting to be made there somewhere, I'm sure). People move around a lot, and that's the main reason why we generally from on state-specific bio-stubs - they need too much regulation, control, and infocreep, which (despite what some people seem think of stub sorters) we don't really like. As I poionted out, though, WP:WSS is generally onto a losing battle with these types, so now that it's there chances are good that it'll stay and be used. Grutness...wha? 23:40, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure about others opinions on the matter, frankly I don't care that much either way, but I wouldn't automatically accociate someone who played for the Cincinnati Reds with Ohio, but with the state they were born in. Unless they were born in Ohio and played for the Reds, then following my own logic I'd associate them with Ohio. Am I free to change the articles I listed from Ohio-stub to Ohio-bio-stub? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 00:12, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, though in the unlikely event that this gets taken to WP:SFD they'll be restubbed. The cincinnati ones can possibly be double stubbed with ohio-bio-stub and cincinnati-stub. As to the queried ones, I wouldn't give a bio-stub to Grassman (not a person), the Ohio Gang (ohio-stub), Queen City Balladeers (looks more like an org-stub or a band-stub) or Steve Weingart (no longer a stub). The rest, though, yes - including the "family" groups. Grutness...wha? 04:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 20:50, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Wording: For some reason This Ohioan biographical article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. doesn't seem to flow. What do you think of one of these alternatives This Ohio biographical article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it., This article about an Ohioan is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it., This Ohio-related biographical article is a stub. You can help Wikipedia by expanding it. ? I'm leaning more towards 2, but 3 isn't half-bad and I think 1 follows what the some other state-bio-stubs say. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 05:28, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Any of them seem reasonable, but it largely depends what you're trying to say (back to the problems above)> Do you want the stub type to be specifically for Ohioans, or for "Ohio-related biographies" - they may be fractionally different in scope. Grutness...wha? 06:17, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Ohioan and Ohio-related are the interchangebale word because they mean the same thing, one who is from or inhabits/inhabitted Ohio. Are there rules for changing wording, or can I just do it? §hep • ¡Talk to me! 23:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

No, if it's an uncontroversial minor change, then feel free to change it. If someone changes it back, then it's better to talk it over on the template's talk page than to get into a revert/revert situation, though. Major changes would be better discussed at WP talk:WSS/P, preferably with input from any relevant Wikiprojects, but for a small change like this there shouldn't be any problems. Grutness...wha? 00:10, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Cool. §hep • ¡Talk to me! 00:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

{{Catalonia-bio-stub}} / Category:Catalonia people stubs

Unproposed. We generally try to avoid splitting people by subnational region - they move around too much. More of a problem though is that there's no sign this is likely to reach threshold; Category:Catalonia stubs, at 160 articles, is nowhere near requiring to be split yet, and very few of the articles marked with {{Catalonia-stub}} are biographies. May be a case of upmerging, at least. Grutness...wha? 01:03, 2 November 2008 (UTC)