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Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Alfred Worden

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Zawed (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 08:20, 22 June 2020 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Alfred Worden edit

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Nominator(s): Wehwalt (talk)

Alfred Worden (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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I am nominating this article for A-Class review because... I think it meets the criteria. Al Worden, the Apollo 15 astronaut, recently passed away, and I'd like to continue my Apollo 15 work (regrettably this didn't get done before he died) by taking this to FAC.Wehwalt (talk) 01:10, 6 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support from Hawkeye7 edit

  • When talking about a West Point graduate, we normally give their class rank. (Worden was 47th in the class of 1955 Cullum, George W. (1960). Biographical Register of the Officers and Graduates of the US Military Academy at West Point New York Since Its Establishment in 1802: Supplement Volume X 1950–1960. West Point, NY: West Point Alumni Foundation. p. 638.
That is done.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:24, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Do we know who appointed him? He must have had good connections. Hmmm how strange. Woden credits Chuck Chamberlain butr he wasn't the local Congressman then. He must have been appointed by William W. Blackney.
I checked Congressional ProQuest for some document from the early 50s that might list appointees but didn't see any. I'll check newspaper sources.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:24, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • These sentences seem jumbled: "After successfully completing the course at Farnborough, Worden served as an instructor at the Aerospace Research Pilot School (ARPS), from which he graduated in September 1965.[1][17] Worden had finished second in his class at Farnborough, and he was ordered to ARPS at the specific request of its commandant, Chuck Yeager."
Information merged.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:05, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Chief Astronaut Alan Shepard on October 3, 1966 assigned Worden and four other Group 5 selectees, including Ken Mattingly, Jack Swigert and Ronald Evans, to the astronaut team dealing with the Block II command module, headed by Pete Conrad." Poor Vance Brand, passed over again. Anyway, you haven't linked Command module yet. (Provide the abbreviation CM here too.) You might also consider saying what is meant by Block II.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:44, 17 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • You could add that the astronauts got a special deal on corvettes. Too bad we cannot use this image. You might mention that Al Worden's corvette is now in a museum. [1] A pity there aren't any Wikipedians in the US to take a photo of it. ("making them less conspicuous" hahaha - everyone knew someone roaring about in a corvette was an astronaut. The local civil and military police understood that speed limits did not apply to astronauts.) Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have emailed the museum and asked whether they would consider donating an image. I do not plan to be visiting Bowling Green, Kentucky anytime soon.--Wehwalt (talk) 06:57, 16 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I dropped a footnote about Rathmann. I think we can skip the museum bit in text.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:38, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hawkeye7, FYI I've corresponded with the owner and we now have an excellent image of Worden's car, along with Scott's, here. He has met a number of the Apollo astronauts and I'm working on more images.--Wehwalt (talk) 00:29, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Oh wow! That is awesome! And you got David Scott's car too! Amazing! Hawkeye7 (discuss) 02:43, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "After the pause, he remained on the support crew for the second Apollo mission, testing of the CM and Lunar Module (LM) in Earth orbit.[29][30] This second mission would be Apollo 8, intended to be an Earth-orbit test of the full Apollo spacecraft, including the LM, in Earth orbit." Again, you seem to be repeating yourself a bit. Suggest merging the first sentence with the second, as the first sentence of its paragraph.
I don't see a merge, but I played with the language a bit.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:05, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link S-IVB. You could even consider telling the reader what it was.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:37, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "He retired from NASA and the Air Force in 1975. ... After retirement from the Air Force as a colonel and from NASA in 1975," Consider cutting back on the redundancy. The bit about his rank best belongs in the former paragraph.
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:37, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for the review and support.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:55, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM edit

Not an astro buff by any means, but I thought I'd see what I could see. Nice job thus far, I have a few comments/suggestions:

  • You could consider "Colonel Alfred Merrill "Al" Worden' USAF (February 7, 1932 – March 18, 2020) was...", which I think is still MOS-compliant, more elegant, and avoids using the "Col" abbreviation which seems jargony for a first sentence
We don't seem to have a consistent style for this, so what you say is as good as any.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:19, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "his selection as a NASA Group 5 astronaut" as NASA is used later but has not been introduced or linked
Done slightly differently.--Wehwalt (talk) 13:19, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "human being to travel the furthest from another human being"
Done a bit differently.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "and as of 2020 remains the one"
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Under Awqards in the infobox, I think the NASA Distinguished Service Medal should be in full and linked, not just an icon
I've done that. Please check to make sure it's what you intended.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His family was strapped for funds" seems a little colloquial
Changed.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "the propeller-driven Beechcraft T-34 trainer" or "the propeller-driven T-34 Mentor trainer"
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "Lockheed T-33 jet trainer"
Added.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • what sort of aircraft was the 95th Fighter Interceptor Squadron flying when Worden was there?
Added.--Wehwalt (talk) 17:10, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "at the University of Michigan, which was approved. He gained the assignment."
Cut.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "After successfully completing the course at Farnborough, second in his class, he returned to the U.S." then "Worden served..."
Done, more or less.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Apollo program in "many hoped-for Apollo"
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link North American Aviation
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Apollo 12 prime crew. led by Pete Conrad" replace the full stop with a comma
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the CAPCOM link is targeted on a video game developer. Probably best to provide this in full as well?
I don't see any reason to spell out "capsule communicator". I've corrected the pipe.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link panoramic camera
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link spectrometer
I piped to Alpha-particle spectroscopy as more specific.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Volcanism#Volcanism on other bodies
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Mmost isolated human being
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • should it be "Trans-Earth Injection" or "trans-Earth injection"?
Standardized per our articles.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link splashdown
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 20:17, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "by the amphibious assault ship USS Okinawa"
Inserted.--Wehwalt (talk)
  • suggest "LM Falcon remained"
Cut.--Wehwalt (talk)
  • "on the lunar surface"
Included.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • should it be "trans-Earth coast"
Yes, changed.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "approved by Deke Slayton"
Cut.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Slayton learned from Scott and Worden that the covers that had been flown had been unauthorized", but some were authorised by Slayton, as previously mentioned?
Modified.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • the link for "Ed Mitchell" goes to a British TV presenter, and once that is fixed, drop the later link to Edgar Mitchell
Did that.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • is there information available about the dates of his promotions up to colonel?
Not with certainty. He was a captain when selected as an astronaut, and a major when he traveled in space. My copy of the August 3, 1972 Senate committee transcript says he was a lieutenant colonel, which means he must have gotten his final promotion after being reprimanded. I'd like to keep out of the whole question unless I find something really authoritative on the point.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:24, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • link Northwood University for Northwood Institute
  • link Republican Party (United States)
  • link Goodrich Corporation
  • link Los Angeles Times
Four links inserted.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest "with the goal of using film to inspire the next generation to go to Mars"
Done, more or less as suggested.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:38, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • suggest a note about the "The Long Gray Line" being a reference to West Point graduates, and I suggest Gray instead of Grey, but I suppose you've got to go with the source
This also seems to be an allusion to West Point's "Alma Mater" song. I'm concerned about saying something that does not capture the nuance of what Aldrin meant.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:29, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • some footnotes have p. or pp. others don't. Suggest consistently using p./pp., same in Sources
My copies of Worden's book and Slayton's are Kindle format.--Wehwalt (talk) 07:45, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Then don't you use |at= or |loc= per WP:REFPAGE? Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:50, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I use loc. If there's a better way of doing it, I'm open to it.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:06, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Quite, my apologies. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:18, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • there are a few duplicate links, including USAF in the lead, and Aerospace engineering, U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School, Kennedy Space Center (move KSC to first mention and use KSC thereafter), Lunar Roving Vehicle, and George Low in the body
I've gotten rid of the ones on aerospace engineering, KSC and LRV. The others seem justified either due to distance or the fact that one is a pipe or acronym.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know enough about the sources to do a source review, unfortunately

That's me done. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 06:31, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's done, I think. Thank you for the most thorough review.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
A pleasure, great work on this. Hope to see it at FAC shortly. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 04:34, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments from AustralianRupert edit

G'day, thanks for your efforts with this article. I have a few comments/suggestions (apologies for any double-ups with the above reviews): AustralianRupert (talk) 09:06, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • he participated in cross country running, gymnastics and as a cheerleader --> "he participated in cross country running, gymnastics and cheerleading"?
OK.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:42, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • benefit the Air Force, Worden in 1961 asked to be sent to study Worden in 1961 --> "benefit the Air Force, in 1961 Worden asked to study..."?
Got that I think.
  • Focused on his job in the Air Force, Worden took --> "Focused his Air Force career, Worden took..."?
Saying you are focused on a career can be interpreted negatively so I've changed "job" to "responsibilities".--Wehwalt (talk) 22:58, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • found hard to accept the fact that --> "found it hard to accept that"?
Done.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • During the pause in the program for the complete safety review that followed, Worden spent --> During the safety review that followed, Worden spent"?
Done more or less.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • to lunar orbit without a LM --> "an LM"?
Hm. The classic NASA pronunciation was "Lem" (it was originally called the "Lunar Excursion Module" while on the drawing boards). But does the reader know that?--Wehwalt (talk) 17:15, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No worries, I can live with it -- I probably should have remembered it from the movies. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk)
  • suggest splitting this: As Apollo 12's backup command module pilot, Worden forged a close, lifelong friendship with the prime crew's CMP, Dick Gordon, with whom he trained, "Dick...
I don't see why. It seems fairly average in sentence length.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:58, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is where the comma splits the quote for me. I would suggest putting a full stop after "trained" and then introducing the quote, for instance: "...with whom he trained. Worden later wrote, "Dick was my buddy. We flew together and worked together for a year and a half when he was training for Apollo 12 and I was his backup. We just went everywhere together. We worked really hard but it was also a lot of fun". Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:47, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done, more or less.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:42, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in the Military service section: aerospace engineering is overlinked, as is U.S> Air Force Test Pilot School
  • Kennedy Space Center is overlinked in the Apollo 15 section -- probably could just use "KSC" at this point as you have already introduced the abbreviation
  • Lunar Roving Vehicle is overlinked in the Return sub section
  • George Low is overlinked in the Covers incident sub section
Overlinks were caught above, see explanation there.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:58, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • in the sources, suggest removing the self pointing authorlink for Al Worden to this article
All done, thanks.--Wehwalt (talk) 23:28, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OK, gone through these and did a couple I missed, plus the follow-up.--Wehwalt (talk) 12:42, 9 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, looks good -- added my support above. Regards, AustralianRupert (talk) 09:29, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review edit

  • Images captioned "The Corvettes owned by Worden..." and "Worden in 2019" should be moved up slightly, they are impeding on the next section in violation of MOS:IMAGELOC.
  • All images are free. buidhe 18:35, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Done that. Thanks.--Wehwalt (talk) 22:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Source review edit

  • fn 1 NASA is a publisher, not a website (dies it need linking?)
  • fn 6 Boy Scouts of America is a publisher, not a website
  • fn 11 New York Times is not linked here, but is on fn 24 and 43
  • fn 21 Of New York Times is linked, why isn't The Space Review?
  • fn 33 page numbers?
We're using the online page. Mostly to ensure we've sourced anything we say about the fire.--Wehwalt (talk) 21:56, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • fn 38 access date?
  • fn 49 publisher?
  • fn 58 page numbers?
Similar response as to #33. Can you suggest satisfactory formatting?--Wehwalt (talk) 23:31, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • fn 65 location?
  • fn 66 contrast with fn 21
  • fn 67 access date?
  • fn 68 is a 404
  • fn 92 should Boca Raton News be linked?
  • fn 99 page number?
Cut.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:00, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All sources look fine. Spot checks down on fn 37, 43, 48, 69, 84 and 112

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 07:03, 21 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I think I've got everything except as noted. Thank you for the source review.--Wehwalt (talk) 01:22, 22 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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