Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Leonard Orban

Leonard Orban edit

I would like your opinion on this article on the current European Commissioner for Multilingualism. I believe it has been researched and edited enough for a peer review to be conducted. Peer reviewers' opinion is especially needed because most of the edits have been done by one person (that's me) and the rest of the articles on the European Commissioners are shorter and less edited (with the possible exception of the article on José Manuel Durão Barroso) and cannot really be taken as a model. As to the content of the article, maybe more things could be told about his career before he was nomitated as a Commissioner, but, for the time being, I have no more English language sources that I could consult. Some Romanian language sources may help for his earlier carrier. I have asked some Romanian wikipedians for possible Romanian sources, but nothing came out of it. So fill free to comment on the content, the structure and the Wikipedia compatibility of this article. Maybe it can even become, in time, a GA or FA article and serve as model for articles on other European Commissioners. --Michkalas 17:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please see automated peer review suggestions here. Thanks, APR _t 23:45, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aytomated review edit

Many useful remarks from the semi-bot APR operated by User:AndyZ. Thank you very much!

Lead expanded (but I will see if some words could be added -please, make suggestions)
A free use photo is not available for this article, only fair use photos officially provided by the European Union. It is difficult to obtain a photo for such a high-rank person not taken by an authorised by the EU photographer, i.e. a photographer whose photos are copyrighted.
Template {{persondata}} added.
Years with full dates all linked.
All footnotes now follow WP:FOOTNOTE.
Article checked upon WP:WIAFA, but maybe specific comments by an other user should be made as it is difficult a contributor to distance himself from his text and find -even otherwise obvious- weaknesses.

Many thanks again! --Michkalas 18:19, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yannismarou edit

Nice effort. It needs some more work, especially in terms of prose. This is my review:

I rephrased a bit the first sentence of the lead. If you don't like it, revert.
"He supports Romania's closer European integration and stands for a strong European Union and relaunching ..." I would rephrase as "He supports Romania's closer European integration and stands for a strong European Union and for relaunching". But again this may be a personal preference.
"Personal life" is stubby. Expand or merge. Maybe you could create a bigger section renamed "Early years and personal life".
"Leonard Orban has studied engineering and, then, economics". OK, but why don't you tell us where and how straight away. You have another phrase, and then you return to his studies, and you analyse them in the next paragraph. Why? Like that, it looks to me like a repetition or an incoherence.
Your first 3 paragraphs in "Career" have no citations. Try to have, at least, one citation for each paragraph.
The prose obviously needs work. It is more than clear that this article is not written by a native-English speaker. These phrases is just one example of the many and various prose problems: :*"In December 2004, he became also Secretary of State of the Ministry of European Integration of Romania coordinating Romania's preparation for accession to the EU, until he became European Commissioner." This is repetitive prose.

"At the same time, he has held various other posts related to Romania's preparation for EU membership, and he has written numerous newspaper articles and analyses and has given numerous speeches on European affairs." He has held?! He still holds them. And when is "at the same time"? If he does not hold these posts right now, then you should say "he held".
"Orban is in charge of the Directorate-General for Translation, the DG for Interpretation and the Office for Official Publications of the European Communities, as well as for the Multilingualism policy unit". Why "of" suddenly becomes "for"?

"The assignment of this portfolio to the Romanian Commissioner by Barroso was criticized as not being substantial enough for a Commissioner, as being a more administrative than political post, and the reasons proposed are that a technocrat rather than a politician was appointed by Romania[14] or the country's deficits in interior and justice policies, especially corruption." Long, prolix phrase, which confused me.
I would suggest an external copy-editing by a native-English speaker. Maybe Wikipedia:WikiProject League of Copyeditors could be careful.
Do not over-wikilink. For instance European Commissioner for Multilingualism is linked at least 3 times. One is enough!
"Leonard Orban is the European Commissioner for Multilingualism in the current European Commission, the Barroso Commission, the executive body of the European Union." You repeat the exact wording of a phrase in the lead. This looks like a repetition and a sketchy prose.
"His salary is €18,233.38 (£12,202) a month plus housing allowance." Try to avoid one-sentence paragraphs like this one. Merge or expand.
"Views on multilingualism" is almost only quotes. Some recasting into alternative language wouldn't go amiss. Now, have in mind that there are alternative ways to present quotes. <blockquote> is the most usual one. You can see such alternative ways and boxes for quotes in El Greco.
Does he have any opinions about the role of US, the EU-US relations, the role of NATO etc.?--Yannismarou 13:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very detailed, helpful and stimulating review. Thanks for your time. I will follow -I think- all your suggestions as soon as possible. Some of the repetitions you mention came from my effort to comply with WP:SS. The balance is of course difficult. Personal life and earlier carrier, as well as his wider political views (on EU-US relations etc), are really difficult to expand. Before he became a Commissioner he wasn't really prominent even in his own country and, as I do not speak Romanian, I have to rely only on English language sources. I asked for help from Romanian wikipedians but with no result. On "Your first 3 paragraphs in "Career" have no citations. Try to have, at least, one citation for each paragraph.", well, the citation is in the end of the 4th paragraph and I put it there because it the source for all the 4 paragraphs. I don't know what is best: to put it in the beginning of the section or to use the multiple citation template to put it at the end of its paragraph? Thanks again! --Michkalas 14:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have made most of the changes you suggested: fixing grammar, shortening some long sentences, avoiding repetitions, merging paragraphs, creating section "Early years and personal life", reducing direct quotes, and avoiding too many wikilinks (I am not sure I did that enough). In fact, I have rewritten some parts of the article. As to the quotes, I preferred not to use <blockquote> or boxes like in El Greco, as these, I believe, give too much emphasis on a single sentence, but in the case of Orban a quote that important doesn't seem to exist. On his general political views I haven't found anything important besides that I have already included. Maybe when his official site is launched, there will be more information. I have asked SandyGeorgia for a review. So, thanks again for the review and for your valuable advice on how to proceed with the article. --Michkalas 16:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SG edit

Sorry for the delay, Michkalas; I lost track of your message on my busy talk page.

Since the article is currently undergoing a copyedit, I didn't look at the prose; I'd rather wait til ce is done.

Pls indicate PDFs as a courtesy to readers with dialup or old broswers—I did one for you as a sample.

Please use language icons on references that are not in English. I don't know all of them—or even where to find all of them—but the ones I know are (in Spanish) (in Italian) (in German) and (in French). You can find the ones you need by guessing, looking at other articles, or you may need to get someone to make one. For examples of how to use them, look at El Hatillo Municipality, Miranda

ah, found them here: Category:Language icons SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is an external jump to an external website in the caption for the image on Orban's oath. That jump should be removed, via either referencing the statement to the website given, or wikilinking to an article about the subject of the jump.

The use of/link to one individual on the Politics of Romania template seems out of place and clutters the article. I can understand linking, for example, the President of a country, but not every politician. IMO, Orban should be removed the template, and the template shouldn't be used in a bio article.

Nice start ! SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:21, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

One more thing: wikilink full dates in refs. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:51, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for your review and your help.

Indicating PDFs, using language icons on references that are not in English, wikilinking full dates in refs, all done. I didn't wikilink the dates which are used as part of the title of the official government papers as they are given in a fixed way: Monitorul Oficial al României no. 1031/27 decembrie 2006 and Official Journal C 321E of 29 December 2006. Tell me if it would be better to wikilink these too.

There is no external jump in the in the caption for the image on Orban's oath. I suppose you don't mean the description under Image:Leonard Orban oath.jpg where there is an external jump for the source of the photo.

On the "Politics of Romania" template. I had the same thoughts, though it was me who added Orban in the template (I did the same for the Bulgarian Commissioner). Well, nobody, including Romanian Wikipedians, has tried to remove him, though it has been a long time since I have put him there. The fact is that it is not exactly like linking "every politician" as he is the country's European Commissioner and because, though in other EU member states equivalent templates Commissioners are not included, Romania (and Bulgaria) are new members and the European issues are more present in the template and is interesting to know aspects of their accession· for instance, in the other EU countries no article "EU accession" is included in their politics template. There is not much attention for most articles on the Commissioners and there is no well established practice. OK, I am not saying no. I am not really sure what to do. Just some thoughts.

Thanks again -and for the encouraging words too! --Michkalas 22:25, 12 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]