Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Science/2018 November 23
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November 23
editMeat questions.
editWhat makes beef meat beef meat, pork meat pork meat, and chicken meat chicken meat? If you ask a biochemist, he'll say "All meat is composed of proteins, and proteins are H2N-CH-R-COOH (empirical formula). Okay, that's a little too zoomed-in. If we zoom out a little less, what are the differences? If you say all meat is the same, imagine if scientists 1 day can mass-produce polypeptides of proteins or meats. And claim it is meat - independent of animal. What a concept that is for groups that can't eat pork meat like Muslims and Jews! Also, as a side question, Muslims and Jews can eat beef, but can they eat cow meat that have been fed pork? Thanks. 67.175.224.138 (talk) 05:07, 23 November 2018 (UTC).
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- I know I'm breaking with tradition by actually answering the question, but hell: it's this. HenryFlower 14:20, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
- Bah, I totally forgot the concept of cells. Meat by animal is also a bunch of meat cells, glued together or so? 67.175.224.138 (talk) 16:59, 23 November 2018 (UTC).
- The "glue" is extracellular matrix material; in connective tissue, collagen is a large part of that. See epimysium, perimysium, endomysium, which are connective tissue membranes at varying scales of muscle ... right down to the "individual cell" (though muscle fibers are really many fused together in a long strand). Wnt (talk) 05:15, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
- The Anglicans come out of this rather well [5]. 2A00:23C1:3180:6501:29E3:4ADB:4474:36D3 (talk) 14:20, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
- Ah, the meat in beef and such, are not just proteins or amino acids, but the proteins and amino acids exist in meat cells? Not outside. Probably meat cells differ by animal, so beef, pork, and chicken meat cells taste different, and so there is no empirical formula. Would you by chance know what glues bone cells? Intracellular matrix? 67.175.224.138 (talk) 14:57, 24 November 2018 (UTC).
- Proteins exist both inside and outside cells. Proteins can be produced and moved directly to a space called the rough endoplasmic reticulum that communicates via vesicles to the outside of the cell. That said, proteins are a bit of red herring in that the "taste" of food is largely about its aroma, and the smell is from small volatile chemicals. This paper reviews important compounds governing the flavor of chicken: hexanal, D-limonene, pentanal, heptanal, 1-octen-3-ol, nonanal, 3-octanone, octanal, diisobutyl phthalate, Z-2-heptenal, 1-pentanol, heneicosane, benzaldehyde ... (in order of decreasing concentration in cage-raised chickens of one of two strains examined; there are substantial variations even based on rearing conditions) It is not immediately obvious to me where many of these come from - some are too long to be most amino acids yet too short to be fatty acids, should be worth looking into further... Wnt (talk) 02:00, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- We have articles about short-chain fatty acids (C<6) and medium-chain fatty acids (C6–C12) that comment on their biochemical origins and roles. DMacks (talk) 14:44, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- Proteins exist both inside and outside cells. Proteins can be produced and moved directly to a space called the rough endoplasmic reticulum that communicates via vesicles to the outside of the cell. That said, proteins are a bit of red herring in that the "taste" of food is largely about its aroma, and the smell is from small volatile chemicals. This paper reviews important compounds governing the flavor of chicken: hexanal, D-limonene, pentanal, heptanal, 1-octen-3-ol, nonanal, 3-octanone, octanal, diisobutyl phthalate, Z-2-heptenal, 1-pentanol, heneicosane, benzaldehyde ... (in order of decreasing concentration in cage-raised chickens of one of two strains examined; there are substantial variations even based on rearing conditions) It is not immediately obvious to me where many of these come from - some are too long to be most amino acids yet too short to be fatty acids, should be worth looking into further... Wnt (talk) 02:00, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
- The "glue" is extracellular matrix material; in connective tissue, collagen is a large part of that. See epimysium, perimysium, endomysium, which are connective tissue membranes at varying scales of muscle ... right down to the "individual cell" (though muscle fibers are really many fused together in a long strand). Wnt (talk) 05:15, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
- Bah, I totally forgot the concept of cells. Meat by animal is also a bunch of meat cells, glued together or so? 67.175.224.138 (talk) 16:59, 23 November 2018 (UTC).
- Bah, my question was not on why meat by animals have different smells or different tastes, but why meat by animal are structurally different. Because on the molecular level, all proteins are composed of H2N-CH-R-COOH, however, I was thinking different animals by species should have different meat cells. I think the dna in cells will even differ for 2 animals of the same species, but isn't there a bioprint that can distinctively tell by animal? 67.175.224.138 (talk) 06:04, 27 November 2018 (UTC).
- Even within one organism, different tissues have substantially different types of cells (something like phenotype, even if same genotype). That means wholely different structures (including different proteins and other compounds) present in different amounts. The animal meat we eat is mostly muscle along with some fat. Plant cells generally have cell walls not just cell membranes. DMacks (talk) 06:15, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
- Proteins are much more complex than a chain of amino acids. Proteins are folded into all sorts of structures, get chemically modified, and are joined to other proteins and molecules. And cells are chock-full of things besides proteins: lipids, fatty acids, carbohydrates, electrolytes, thousands upon thousands of different small molecules. All of these will be factors in determining how a type of meat looks, feels, tastes, and so on. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 09:11, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
- I see a few "it's everything" answers here, and they're all true, but they're all false. I mean, there is actual food science ("molecular gastronomy", we have an article!) where bright bulbs at corporations figure out how to make chicken gizzards into scrumptious nuggets, perhaps with the judicious addition of certain chemicals (doubtless from natural sources, at least when those are cheaper). I haven't done the research but if you have one specific goal in mind, say, making chicken-soy franks taste more like beef, you can find a lot of literature on it. Wnt (talk) 12:59, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
- Bah, my question was not on why meat by animals have different smells or different tastes, but why meat by animal are structurally different. Because on the molecular level, all proteins are composed of H2N-CH-R-COOH, however, I was thinking different animals by species should have different meat cells. I think the dna in cells will even differ for 2 animals of the same species, but isn't there a bioprint that can distinctively tell by animal? 67.175.224.138 (talk) 06:04, 27 November 2018 (UTC).