Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2015 September 22
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September 22 edit
The 1970's in the UK edit
Compared to the 2010's, what kind of 'feel' did the 1970s have in the 2010? Did people think that the time they were living in was technologically advanced, and what did the older generations (born in 20s/30s) think of the youth sub-culture at the time? --Klefögg (talk) 17:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Sure we did! We were technologically advanced compared to previous decades. Computers were starting to be everywhere - the first microprocessors were available, we had the compact cassette and the walkman, the floppy disk, LCD displays. Portable music was a revolution. Video games were in arcades - and starting to be cheap enough that your could own one. We also had 'usenet' - the predecessor of the Internet - although only businesses & universities really got to use it, I had an email address in 1978. I also owned a home computer in 1978 (the TRS-80) - the AppleII was also out then.
- I was born in the 1950's - my parents were from the 1930's. They were completely dumbfounded by the Beatles - these guys with hair-styles that made them look like girls...they were about as horrified as if they had been wearing dresses! When hippie hit the world in the '60s, they took another severe hit to the psyche...the whole 'free love' thing was horrifying on a whole new level! My father took the tecnological changes of the personal computer pretty well - he bought one shortly after I did, and I taught him how to use it.
- I don't think much has changed in the way people react to technological change and cultural shifts...I'd like to think I cope better with new tech than my parents did - and I don't hate my son's music choices as much as my parent's hated mine. Most youth culture stuff seems pretty mild these days...it's mostly like a back-lash from my generation's abrupt leap. SteveBaker (talk) 20:13, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- The OP's query was specifically about the UK in the 1970s. I have the impression you may be writing about your experiences in the US (my apologies, if I'm mistaken). Just on a point of fact, the Walkman did not go on sale in the UK until 1980 (indeed it's arguably the quintessential 1980s piece of technology). Similarly, although (as you point out) there was some form of internet in the 1970s, it was by no means part of everyday life for more than probably a handful of people in the UK, and similarly neither was any form of un-networked home computer which only became commonplace as the 1980s progressed (this page [1] has a UK perspective on the history of home computing).
- No, I'm British - I've lived in the USA only since about 1993. SteveBaker (talk) 04:49, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
- The OP's query was specifically about the UK in the 1970s. I have the impression you may be writing about your experiences in the US (my apologies, if I'm mistaken). Just on a point of fact, the Walkman did not go on sale in the UK until 1980 (indeed it's arguably the quintessential 1980s piece of technology). Similarly, although (as you point out) there was some form of internet in the 1970s, it was by no means part of everyday life for more than probably a handful of people in the UK, and similarly neither was any form of un-networked home computer which only became commonplace as the 1980s progressed (this page [1] has a UK perspective on the history of home computing).
- On a more general point, while your parents may have been dumbfounded by the Beatles, that was not a typical reaction in the UK. Within months of their initial success, the Beatles had been partially co-opted by the establishment, appearing regularly on the BBC and at the Royal Variety Performance, awarded MBEs, etc. As early as 1964, the British press carried a report of a school headmaster who had suspended pupils because they had "long and scruffy" hair like the Stones and they were to remain suspended unless they had it cut nicely like the Beatles [2]. Although the Stones were typically depicted as the bad boys to the Beatles in the early 1960s press, they also enjoyed considerably airplay on the establishment BBC [3]. As the 60s moved into the 1970s the relationship between the counterculture and the British establishment had a very different tone to that in the US. No doubt there are a variety of reasons for this, but among them would be the fact that the Vietnam War didn't sharpen the tension between the government and the young in the way it did in the US as no young British men were being conscripted, the UK government for much of the 1960s and 1970s was well to the left of any of the American administrations (Democrat or Republican) of the same period, and there were significant legal and social reforms in the UK in the late 1960s (mainly during Roy Jenkins' time as Home Secretary), which did not happen uniformly or at all in the US due to its federal nature.
- In theory, the youth subculture of punk rock in the mid-1970s did scandalise many older people - or at least it generated much tabloid outrage. At the same time, the nature of the music business in the UK meant many UK punk and new wave acts enjoyed mainstream chart success. Within a few years - while (for comparison) US punks remained controversial and very left-field - former UK punks were promoting novelty singles on kids TV.
- If you want to consider the "feel" of the 1970s in the UK, you can't overlook that this was a period of significant economic troubles as epitomised by the Three-Day Week and in so far as there was a degree of civil unrest - such as the Winter of Discontent - this was more a result of class-based and political disputes between left-wingers (many of them middle-aged trade unionists rather than young people) and the establishment, than of simple generational conflict. The UK in the 1970s was far more collectivist than the UK of the current decade under the so-called Post-war consensus. Far fewer people received a university education, far more worked in manufacturing industry, far fewer owned their own homes and living in social housing (the council house) was entirely normal for working people on moderate incomes and not reserved only for the most economically vulnerable. There were far fewer cars on the road and much public transport was state-run. (I've not added references for these statements as I believe they're largely non-contentious and can all be checked by a little googling). If the OP wants a more considered view, they may like to read some social history. I understand the two volumes on Britain in the 1970s by Dominic Sandbrook were generally well-regarded but I haven't read them myself. I did see The 70s (TV series) which was based loosely on those books, also by Sandbrook, and clips of this can be viewed (legally) at the BBC website [4]. Valiantis (talk) 23:08, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
- Further re computers: when I finished UK secondary school in 1975 (aged 18) my (public – i.e. fee-paying) school didn't have a single computer of any kind, and only a few pupils even had pocket calculators (whose use in any public exam was forbidden – we had to use slide rules and log tables). At University in 1975-6 the Maths Department computers measured a few feet on a side, and all the printers were in a separate room to reduce noise. I concur that Steve's memories are anachronistic and/or applicable to a different country. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.74.232.130 (talk) 13:50, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- More on computers: I finished my comprehensive (state - i.e. free) secondary school in 1976 when I was 17 (having a birthday on 1 September meant I was very young passing through all stages of education), and apart from a few desktop calculators the school's complete computing power from 1975 was a pair of teletypes which connected to a college around 20 miles away via an acoustic coupler and a dial-up telephone line. However, spending lunchtimes playing American Civil War on the teletypes got me interested in computing, in which I did a BSc degree in 1976-79 - the university's computers were a couple of mainframes which we could either use via teletypes or via punched cards (it was only around 1977 that we got large numbers of "glass teletype" VDUs); the School of Computing had some more impressive graphics terminals and plotters, and a PDP-11, and we used to program what was called a "microcomputer" (which was basically a cube about a metre on a side) in hexadecimal code and you had to boot up the operating system from paper tape when you turned it on! I remember that in 1978 the Computing Society managed to extract around £800 from the Students Union to buy a Commodore PET with 4K of memory - this was the first real microcomputer most of us had seen, and I remember lecturers and professors coming round to admire it. Micros were really expensive - at this time a student was expected to survive for a year on around £1000 (and you could do it, too, at least excluding the summer vacation when you might have a job or sign on for Social Security). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 20:22, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- Paper tape? Luxury! We had a (v. nice) HP 2108A that you had to boot from the front panel! Speaking personally, although the 1970's were perceived as being technologically advanced, there wasn't a great sense of technological progress, certainly as compared with the 1960's. Televisions became colour rather than black-and-white, cassette players became stereo rather than mono, but car phones were still for the insanely wealthy and computers were still devices that sent you gas bills for £21,474,836.47 rather than the ubiquitous domestic Space Invaders platforms of the next decade. Tevildo (talk) 22:01, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- More on computers: I finished my comprehensive (state - i.e. free) secondary school in 1976 when I was 17 (having a birthday on 1 September meant I was very young passing through all stages of education), and apart from a few desktop calculators the school's complete computing power from 1975 was a pair of teletypes which connected to a college around 20 miles away via an acoustic coupler and a dial-up telephone line. However, spending lunchtimes playing American Civil War on the teletypes got me interested in computing, in which I did a BSc degree in 1976-79 - the university's computers were a couple of mainframes which we could either use via teletypes or via punched cards (it was only around 1977 that we got large numbers of "glass teletype" VDUs); the School of Computing had some more impressive graphics terminals and plotters, and a PDP-11, and we used to program what was called a "microcomputer" (which was basically a cube about a metre on a side) in hexadecimal code and you had to boot up the operating system from paper tape when you turned it on! I remember that in 1978 the Computing Society managed to extract around £800 from the Students Union to buy a Commodore PET with 4K of memory - this was the first real microcomputer most of us had seen, and I remember lecturers and professors coming round to admire it. Micros were really expensive - at this time a student was expected to survive for a year on around £1000 (and you could do it, too, at least excluding the summer vacation when you might have a job or sign on for Social Security). -- Arwel Parry (talk) 20:22, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- Category:1970s in the United Kingdom would be a good place to start your research. --Jayron32 14:44, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
- Probably no-one in Britain since the Industrial Revolution has not thought of themselves as living in a technologically advanced era. A few specific inventions of the era were sources of great British pride – InterCity 125 (world's fastest diesel train), Concorde (world's fastest passenger jet - the "E" stands for "England"!"), SR.N4 (world's largest passenger hovercraft) and the Harrier Jump Jet (world's first vertical-take-off jet) – and Tomorrow's World (which showcased new technology) was a popular show. (As a side note - although the internet didn't make any waves until the 80s, Ceefax (perhaps the first mainstream public hypertext system) started in the mid seventies) Smurrayinchester 13:45, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
- (Actually this 1979 episode of Tomorrow's World, reviewing the technology of the last decade, might be a great place to learn a bit more about how British people in the 70s saw technology) Smurrayinchester 13:49, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
- A couple of factual points - Harrier GR1: 1967. SR.N4: 1968. Concorde: 1969. (Ceefax and the Class 43 are indeed products of the 70's). I would stand by my opinion that the 1960's was a decade of greater (perceived) technological change. Tevildo (talk) 20:48, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Clearinghouses edit
When someone refers to a clearinghouse in reference to a medical practice, billing, and insurance carriers, are they referring to Clearing house (finance)? Specifically those described in Clearing house (finance)#Clearing of payments? It doesn't look like it to me but then if I knew, I wouldn't be asking. :)
If not, do we have an article on the clearinghouse that I'm hearing about? 198.169.189.229 (talk) 19:25, 22 September 2015 (UTC)