Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 November 22

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

November 22

Deck guns on WWII U-boats

In WW II movies, German U-boats are shown with deck guns. How can a gun barrel and firing mechanism be able to function after being immersed in icy salt water for many days?OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 01:45, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Smaller guns (i.e. anti-aircraft armament) were disassembled and taken below before submerging. Large-calibre guns seem generally only to have had the barrel plugged, and otherwise relied on greasing and on rust-resistant steel to alleviate the problems. [1] It seems apparent that there were always going to be problems with such guns - though they may not have been significantly worse than those on a surface ship constantly exposed to salt spray. AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:09, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

We have an article, Deck gun, but it doesn't address this issue. I believe Andy is correct, the barrel being plugged with a tampion. It wasn't only German U-boats that had deck guns; the last Royal Navy syubmarine to mount one was HMS Andrew (P423) which fired her gun, a QF 4 inch naval gun Mk XXIII, for the last time in 1974 just before her retirement. Alansplodge (talk) 10:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Yeah - the link I provided actually relates to U.S. submarines. I couldn't find anything regarding U-Boat deck gun anti-corrosion measures other than on forums. I think that the U.S. navy actually had more success with deck guns than anyone else during WW2 - the Pacific war probably gave more opportunities for a weapon only usable in calm water, against unarmed or lightly armed isolated targets, than the Atlantic one. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:05, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

WWII submarines had to come up every 24hrs (normally at night) to re-charge their lead-acid batteries (from the diesel engines), and to take in fresh air. The snorkel only became common in the middle of WWII; this allowed the submarine to run just under the water's surface. CS Miller (talk) 13:36, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

A WW2 movie I saw had them bring up a small deck gun and attach it to a fixed mounting point. That seems feasible to me. StuRat (talk) 22:08, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

That would work for machine guns, but the standard deck gun used by the USN at the end of WWII, the 5"/25 caliber gun, weighed two tons, so too heavy to carry up a ladder in a hurry. Alansplodge (talk) 02:53, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

It's worth recalling that:

1. Our U-boat article says: "Because speed and range were severely limited underwater while running on battery power, U-boats were required to spend most of their time surfaced running on Diesel engines, diving only when attacked or for rare daytime torpedo strikes. The more ship-like hull design reflects the fact that these were primarily surface vessels which had the ability to submerge when necessary." - so if the guns were submerged only for short periods of time, and relatively rarely - maybe it simply wasn't an issue.
2. Iron needs both water and oxygen in order to rust (See rust). There is obviously oxygen dissolved in seawater - but less so at depth than for metals close to or just above the surface. This article [2] shows that the worst ravages of rust are in the 'splash zone' - and much less severe in complete submersion. Interestingly, that graph shows the best case scenario of all was in the "tidal zone" where the material would be alternately submerged and then surfaced...which is actually the closest to how a U-boat actually operated. This suggests the counter-intuitive result that these guns would actually corrode somewhat more slowly than would be the case for surface ships!
3. Perhaps another reason that these guns worked sufficiently well was that the practical service life of a U-boat was horrifically short - during WWII, they had an 82% casualty rate. In all likelyhood, they'd either get sunk before corrosion became an issue - or they'd get home for a periodic re-fit, which might well have included replacing the barrel of the deck-gun.

SteveBaker (talk) 15:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for all of the good responses you have all provided. The mystery has been cleared up!OnBeyondZebrax (talk) 00:29, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Best online clothing shop for older women

Hi there,
I'm looking for the best online clothing shop for women.
We're talking about a woman in size of 86 kg, or 190 pounds.

Best? My mother usually orders through the Sears and J C Penny's catalogs for delivery to their nearest store. That way she can try it on at the store and if she doesn't like it return it then and there to the counter. Assuming your older woman is mobile that's a helpful option. μηδείς (talk) 17:48, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

If "best" means "cheapest", there's 10DollarMall.com. If you mean most expensive, there's a $1,000 pair of shorts here. Fun Fact: Googling "expensive online clothes" (without quotes) overwhelmingly gets results without any form of the word "expensive". But that store was at the top. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:54, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Here's a $492 T-shirt she probably won't like. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

At that size you might want a store that specializes in plus-sized women, such as Lane Bryant. Their website: [3]. StuRat (talk) 22:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

United States Citizen thinking about emigrating to the UK or EU. Is it fairly possible?

I am an adult male citizen of the United States with a college degree from a reputable university and several graduate degrees. I do not speak any non-English language with any fluency although I can read French and German. Would it be possible to me to legally move to the UK (England or Scotland), or France, Germany, Italy? I'm not thinking of this as just moving there as a rich expatriate (for I have no money or property) but as an emigrant to start a new life. What is required to get permission to enter the country, get a job, be allowed to open accounts, rent somewhere to live, etc.? Thank you. Zombiesturm (talk) 15:03, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Google turns up a multitude of hits, from the official gov't websites to WikiHow. This may also be of interest. I'm almost certain that other countries likewise have their own websites for you to peruse. Matt Deres (talk) 16:13, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Are or were any of your grandparents Irish? If so, you may be able to acquire Irish citizenship (Irish citizenship through birth or descent), which would give you the right to live and work throughout the EU. DuncanHill (talk) 17:50, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

No, sorry. I have absolutely no ties to Europe. So in any case, what do those websites say? Thanks. Zombiesturm (talk) 19:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

What do you mean by 'what do they say'? If you can read this, you can read the websites. I hyperlinked the pages I found. That means you can click them and go see them. Try that. If you have specific questions based on what you read, we can try helping you out more. Matt Deres (talk) 01:34, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

I know of a woman who, in the nineties, got transferred by her employer to a job in Britain. She ended up marrying a Brit, and got permanent resident status. But the couple ended up moving back to NYC when they could because she felt there was an animus against her as an interloper. So, apparently resident status could be had as the employed wife of a native. I have no idea if that still applies, and you haven't mentioned your employer. But seeking a job with an American company that will transfer you is one possibility. There's also Canada, which quasi-billionaire Michael Burry recommends to Americans as a good hedge. μηδείς (talk) 22:24, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Another avenue you may wish to consider is working for the UN or another international organization, of which there are plenty in Europe. You can browse UN jobs here. --Viennese Waltz 22:29, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

If one just ignored immigration laws and entered the UK and worked there a few years, perhaps having children there, do politicians there hold out promises of amnesty for illegal ("undocumented") workers like politicians in the USA do? In the USA many hold the belief that illegals have as much right to residency as anyone else. For instance, illegals who had been in the US for 4 years got amnesty in 1986, and there have been amnesty laws or executive orders since then. Obama recently issued an amnesty executive order, and George W Bush supported some form of amnesty. Has the UK had any similar amnesty since the 1980's, or do they always just expel llegals? Edison (talk) 20:25, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Politicians have been known to suggest such things (e.g. [4]). Which is not to say that they will happen... AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:39, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I certainly wouldn't be sorry to see one! However, it is worth bearing in mind that the US is a jus soli nation (birth confers citizenship) while the UK is a jus sanguinis nation (citizenship descends through the parents). As a result, it doesn't (usually) have the dramatic case of citizen children with non-citizen parents, which informs a lot of the discussion around amnesties. Andrew Gray (talk) 20:12, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

In essence, to be granted permanent residence and a work permit in most of these countries without EU citizenship or existing family ties, you either have to marry a citizen, or you have to prove 1) that you have certain skills or qualifications, the lack of which in the native population is holding back economic growth, and 2) that you will be able to adapt to the local culture and fit in to an extent. It is hard to meet qualification 2) if you don't speak the local language, though I believe Germany is making exceptions for people with exceptional technical skills. Since you do speak English, that helps you with criterion 2) in the UK and Ireland. (I know that the UK uses a system like this, with points awarded for qualities that satisfy these criteria, but I am not sure that Ireland does.) Marco polo (talk) 20:47, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

I believe that (in many cases) you need to have a specific employer arguing your case for #1, as well - it's not quite as simple as saying "ah, you need skilled grobblewranglers, I'm one, and I'll pick up a job when I get there". Andrew Gray (talk) 20:12, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

You mention having several graduate degrees, and I'm assuming one may be a doctorate. Your best bet would be checking the universities of Great Britain for a non-tenured faculty position in your fields of expertise (as documented by your graduate resume). Having been accepted as an instructor or fellow of a university would probably provide the "needed skills" exemption to UK immigration law described above, especially if it's in a field not well represented in the present UK population.

In fact, unless one of your graduate degrees or your undergraduate degree is particularly salable in the business field (let's say you're a biologist who also has plenty of experience programming in the SAS System - you'd be able to pick and choose jobs in the UK's pharmaceutical industry), your very best bet would be getting a faculty position, as a "visiting professor" if, indeed, you now hold a professorship in a US university (I don't know if you do or you don't).

If your graduate education gave you experience programming in the SAS System (if you don't know what it is, never mind the rest of this sentence) then you are a clinical data analyst in your chrysalis waiting to break out and just don't know it yet. It doesn't matter in this case what your actual academic major is, SAS programming is possibly the most lucrative skill you can have picked up in the course of studying something other than computer programming. Just don't try to fake it, it's a lucrative skill because SAS has a very idiosyncratic syntax not helped by code execution being very different between the base programming language and the macro language. It's not like FORTRAN, where if you have a clue about sequential logic, you can pick it up in two weeks. But if you DO have SAS skills, use that graduate education to learn the current movers and shakers in medical/pharmaceutical information sciences, and doubtless you can make a case for some UK pharma or consulting firm to hire you. loupgarous (talk) 23:31, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

Apple Marketing Board of New York?

Did this ever exist? Everything I see seems to be loosely attributed to our In American culture section on apple pie, which itself treats it like a rumor. I've also asked on the talk page, but more eyes here. InedibleHulk (talk) 17:21, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Googling apple marketing board new york gets you http://www.nyapplecountry.com/about/nyaa and a pdf from the NY Dept. of Ag. about a marketing board, no url because using this browser I'd probably crash opening it. μηδείς (talk) 17:43, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Found the NYAA, brought it up on Talk, but can't see the PDF with my Googling. Just ones about Vermont, Connecticut and Maryland's apple strategies. Title? InedibleHulk (talk) 17:53, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Google for this: "Apple Marketing Order - Department of Agriculture +pdf". And I am assuming you are not looking for Apple Records or Apple computers. μηδείς (talk) 19:18, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I see it. Talks of a "Apple Marketing Order Advisory Board", which is pretty close. Also mentions a "New York State Association of Refrigerated Warehouses", which sounds pretty cool. Still, I smell something fishy in that pie article. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:58, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

That NYSARW (doesn't sound as cool) which nominates members to the advisory board formed in 1956, so even if this board is derived from that alleged "apple a day" board, it's not quite the same board. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:07, 22 November 2014 (UTC)