Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2014 April 13

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April 13

Narrow English country roads

How does one pass other vehicles on little roads like this one? I'm talking the guy going the other direction, not overtaking a slower driver. Street View is present at the nearest intersections in both directions; I saw no signs prohibiting entry in either direction, and the signs basically saying "X this way" appear at both ends — it's not a one-lane road. I've been on similarly narrow roads here in the USA, but those ones had grassy areas on either side, so you could go off the edge if necessary — quite different from this English road, with the trees on the left and the posts in the ground on the right. Nyttend (talk) 03:26, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

That example looks relatively easy to negotiate. Those wooden posts are not common but there is an obvious pull-over place on the right, opposite which you would wait until the approaching vehicle reaches you. Good straight road also offers a long view. It requires cooperation with the vehicle approaching you and the distance between the two vehicles when they first sight each other. It is very likely that there will be a point in the road where one of you can pull over and allow the other through. Having spent 5 decades driving on roads like this (but not exclusively on roads like this) difficulties in passing are rare. I did once meet an agricultural tractor on a similar road with banks on each side which required me to reverse about a quarter of a mile to a passing point, but only once. Essentially it is about judging who is closest to a pass point, a subtlety that I would find hard to explain here but it works. Sometimes the cooperation goes overboard and you may find yourselves both flashing your lights inviting the other driver through. Of course one does occasionally meet with pigheads who insist on pushing through and forcing a back-up, but into every life a little rain must fall and it is forever comforting to know you are not a pighead. It is a very minor issue that does not normally detract from countryside driving. Richard Avery (talk) 07:07, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

As Richard says, this stretch presents no problem - no-one would object if you pulled in to the property entrance on the left to let someone pass from the opposite direction. Most country roads in many parts of Britain - especially in places like Devon (random example here) - have much less visibility than the road you indicate, by having much tighter bends and much higher hedge banks (and deeper ditches) at the side. The advice is to drive under the working assumption that there is someone coming in the opposite direction who you can't yet see (and who can't see you), and be prepared to reverse to allow them to pass. Night driving is often easier on these roads, because you can see the light of a vehicle coming towards you. Ghmyrtle (talk) 08:06, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Agree with all the above. Occasionally, you get a rude bastard (nearly always driving a Mercedes or BMW for some reason) who wants to try to force their way through, but most drivers approach the problem with the ethic that you let the other driver through unless it's clearly a lot easier for him/her to let you pass. A quick flash of the headlights indicates that you are giving way to the other vehicle - it's not in the Highway Code but it works and everybody knows what it means. Sometimes we can be TOO polite and you get a "You first" / "No, you first" situation until somebody backs down and accepts the right of way. It's not just country roads either, you get the same situation in town where Victorian terraced housing has no off-road parking facility - everybody parks outside their house leaving room for only a single track in the middle of the road. This is my old street in east London. Alansplodge (talk) 10:22, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Some of those cars would be ticketed for parking against the flow of traffic where I live. Rmhermen (talk) 12:44, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

It's technically an offence in the UK to park in the wrong direction, but I've never heard of anybody being prosecuted for it and nobody gives it much thought, in London anyway. Alansplodge (talk) 20:06, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

How very interesting and how very much I agree with Gmyrtle above especially with his link to the road in Devon. My wife and I recently drove from Buckfastleigh Abbey to Chelston along such a road and it was bloody terrifying. We did all the right things such as driving slowly, keeping as far to the left as possible, sounding our horn on blind bends etc., etc. And still we encountered road hogs approaching us at speed, in the centre of the road, having taken no precautions as had we, and yes, they insisted on having us reverse to a wide enough passing point, and yes, they were usually driving BMW's and Mercedes. 94.174.140.161 (talk) 10:54, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

And a reference for that: The Daily Telegraph, 12 Oct 2010 - BMW drivers were yesterday named and shamed as Britain's angriest motorists. Alansplodge (talk) 12:42, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

On the really narrow roads in Cumbria, we seldom have the problem of drivers with posh cars, because they avoid the narrowest lanes, not wishing to scratch their shiny paintwork on the encroaching hedges. People who know the road are often willing to reverse the odd hundred yards to a passing place because they realise that this will be quicker than waiting for an inexperienced reverser to reach a nearer passing-place. Dbfirs 11:48, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

I've experienced this in Wales. On a road with passing places with a drop one side and a cliff the other I had gone about 20 metres past a passing place when a land rover came round a bend. I thought "right, take it easy, sub walking pace and keep an eye on the wheels". Before I had started to move the other driver reversed back round the bend, then he went at about 10 mph. and another 80 metres or so to a passing place - all with a terrifying drop on one side! -- Q Chris (talk) 13:09, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Some of you are too much of a soft touch. In the past I have stood my ground and insisted they back up the 15 metres to the nearest passing place, rather than me backing up 200 metres. Yes, there are passing places; but they can be a couple of hundred metres apart. Like others have said, it takes some cooperation, some thinking ahead and predicting of behavoir. Astronaut (talk) 17:41, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

You sound like a real delight to deal with. Shadowjams (talk) 07:13, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

One point which hs not been mentioned is that when a road is both narrow and steep, the advice is that the car coming downhill should reverse rather than expect the one coming up hill to do so. This is because it is much easier to lose control of a vehicle reversing down a steep slope. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.37.240 (talk) 11:36, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

The Highway Code says otherwise for hills, Rule 155 says "Single-track roads. These are only wide enough for one vehicle. They may have special passing places. If you see a vehicle coming towards you, or the driver behind wants to overtake, pull into a passing place on your left, or wait opposite a passing place on your right. Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can. If necessary, reverse until you reach a passing place to let the other vehicle pass. Slow down when passing pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders." DuncanHill (talk) 16:00, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I think you've misread the Highway Code there, Duncan: "Give way to vehicles coming uphill whenever you can" is equivalent to "the car coming downhill should reverse rather than expect the one coming uphill to do so". 86.146.28.229 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 17:42, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

I read the Highway Code correctly, but mis-read your original comment! My apologies. DuncanHill (talk) 17:47, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

The UK Highway Code is addressed to inexperienced drivers in a country where manual gearchanging is the norm, so Rule 155 may be intended to reduce the need for uphill starts, which are more difficult for learners than downhill starts. The Code offers other advice for new drivers, such as "It’s most dangerous driving at night - don’t drive between midnight and 6am unless it’s really necessary." Right-of-way on narrow roads is never a problem when driving my vehicle. 84.209.89.214 (talk) 18:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Presumably because you can't get onto the narrow road in the first place... MChesterMC (talk) 12:18, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

The UK Highway code makes good sense for all drivers because the car coming downhill often has a better view of passing places and can simply pull into one to allow the uphill car to pass. This conserves fuel and reduces total CO₂ emissions. Dbfirs 21:20, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

While vehicle codes in the United States vary somewhat state-by-state, as far as I know, "uphill drivers have the right-of-way" is the standard rule everywhere in America. I had always understood the reason to be that backing up uphill, while challenging, is not as dangerous as backing up downhill. --Trovatore (talk) 20:39, 16 April 2014 (UTC)