Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Miscellaneous/2012 August 31

Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

August 31

Why Has the Combo of Short Shorts/a Short Skirt and Knee Socks Become Extremely Popular for Young Women During the Last 10 or 20 Years?

I have always been curious about this. Thank you. Futurist110 (talk) 07:00, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Just the last 10 or 20? Have you ever seen the 1960s babes with their mini-skirts and full-calf boots? ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 07:30, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

1960s? Have you seen the Chinese Women's Militia? Video on YouTube ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:55, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Long boots does not equal long socks. Futurist110 (talk) 07:59, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Fashion. --Dweller (talk) 08:30, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

See also Cultural history of the buttocks (possibly my favourite article title). Ghmyrtle (talk) 10:59, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

That may be the best titled article in all of Wikipedia. WP:WHAAOE. --Jayron32 14:03, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

The editor who created that article was being a bit cheeky. StuRat (talk) 21:06, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

My favorite title award goes to our article on Great tits. ;) Vespine (talk) 00:07, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

To be fair, when women wear short shorts and long socks I am primarily attracted to the upper part of their legs being exposed rather than by their buttocks. Futurist110 (talk) 05:41, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

• To the original question: asking "why" for fashion is generally a futile exercise, as though the question expects a rational, mechanistic, or deterministic process which can be explained what becomes fashionable and what doesn't. I don't think that is an answerable question in any meaningful way. Dweller's brief answer is the best way to answer this: there is no "why", per se. There are predictible patterns to how fashion trends grow and evolve and become popular then leave the cultural consciousness, but this process (covered in excellent detail in Malcom Gladwell's book The Tipping Point, so if you want to see how it happens, I suggest starting there) is completely independent of the substance of the fashion trend. That is, we know how fashion trends develop, but there is no reliable way to predict or explain the substance of those trends. --Jayron32 14:03, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Hmm, I'm not so sure. I tend to take a conspiracy-theorist view of fashion. I don't know if I actually believe that, but at some level I presume that it's all decided by some dark cabal, and the sheeple, for unknowable reasons, go along. I take some pride in not doing that. --Trovatore (talk) 22:58, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
    • Except if you intentionally always go against the grain, it requires you to keep a constant inventory of what the grain is. That takes just as much effort as going with the grain does... --Jayron32 02:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
      • Sure, but I don't do that. I dress to please myself. --Trovatore (talk) 02:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Accessing wikipedia library

hi i am a research scholar i want to know that is there any option in wikipedia that i can access the references which given in the last of articles?as i need to access that books or journals for further references to write research papers.

Thanks Regards Mohammad OSama — Preceding unsigned comment added by Firoz osama (talk • contribs) 07:22, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm afraid the answer is no. You would need to find the books and journals yourself in an actual library. --Viennese Waltz 07:35, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

If you are a research scholar, then presumably you have access to a university library. I suggest you ask the librarian there what references are available. Most universities have subscribtions to all the major journals, and often a lot of minor ones as well. --Tango (talk) 11:30, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

See WP:REX. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 13:46, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Have you got the time?

I travel quite a lot and quite often find myself wandering round a strange city. It surprises me just how often I am asked either for the time or for directions - often if it my first ever visit. For example, on my first ever visit to Venice, I was there for only three days yet was asked at least three times for the time or for directions to somewhere in the city, and only the other week I was asked for directions to Dam Square in Amsterdam by three different people in the space of an hour. Is there some commonly used strategy that people use when asking strangers these kind of questions - perhaps a kindly looking fellow, or at least somone who isn't a psychopath? Does this happen to other people too? Maybe this is an example of confirmation bias (I just don't notice when I pass the day without someone asking the time or for direction), or it has occurred to me that this is maybe some secret code that I am oblivious to (an invitation to further conversation perhaps?). Astronaut (talk) 12:11, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

It happens to me as well, and I don't know why. I hope someone has an explanation for this phenomenon! AlexTiefling (talk) 12:18, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Damn, and I thought I was the direction guy wherever I went. I have confirmed that, at least partially, this is true because my wife never gets asked for directions by strangers, whereas I always do; though that may come from some societal preference for asking men over women (I have no idea of the gender of the above two posters, however). In objectively assessing it, however, this seems to be a version of the well-known bias known as the Street light interference phenomenon. That is, an astonishing number of people have the belief that street lights spontaneously turn off around them. What this really is is confirmation bias; street lights turn off at the same rate always, with or without us present. We happen to remember all of those lights that happen to turn off when we are around, but we a) don't remember when they stay on and b) have no awareness of when they turn off when we aren't around. So we build up a false sense of a pattern: we believe ourselves to have a special effect (we turn off street lights) because when it happens we take it as positive evidence of an effect, but when it doesn't, or when it does we don't know about it, well those bits of negative evidence are ignored. Likewise, it is probably the case that the random average person on the street gets asked directions the same as anyone else does: but when it happens to us, we assume its because of some strange phenomenon; we're "directions people". In reality, it is just confirmation bias: we ignore evidence that would lead us to believe the phenomenon doesn't exist, but we tend to overemphasize the importance of those times when it does. --Jayron32 12:53, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm unconvinced, a priori, that it's confirmation bias. I suspect some form of profiling is also going on. Are you a non-aggressive-looking white male who dresses fairly conservatively? --Mr.98 (talk) 14:54, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

(OR)In London this would be completely understandable. The natives are all on a mission to get somewhere, will be walking quickly, will probably have headphones in, and will be looking down and trying to avoid eye contact. Tourists, meanwhile, will be moving more slowly, will be looking around them, and as a bonus probably have a map with them. It's just easier to get directions from a tourist than from a local. - Cucumber Mike (talk) 15:19, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, although when I worked in the City, I used to be asked for directions regularly and found it a pleasing task. However, the grumpy old man that used to sell newspapers in a booth outside Tower Hill Station had a large placard saying "DO NOT ASK ME FOR DIRECTIONS". Alansplodge (talk) 17:38, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Just a suggestion, and possibly a silly one, but (a) do you wear an obvious wristwatch and (b) do you carry a map when in a strange city, or have a guidebook tucked into a pocket or bag? If I wanted to ask someone the time I'd first glance to see whether I could spot a watch, and if I wanted directions I'd ask someone who seemed to be carrying a map in preference to someone who didn't. - Karenjc 17:54, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

See, I have the opposite feeling towards a map. People who are native to a place don't carry maps; they already know where to go. If I ask for directions, I'm not asking the guy with the map, he doesn't know either. I'm looking for someone who is from where I want directions, who will have a native's perspective and understanding of geography. --Jayron32 18:01, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

The obvious strategy is to avoid eye contact at all cost. If someone does manage to get your attention, try answering them in a foreign language. This will, of course, backfire terribly if they happen to know that language. Studying a little Zulu is a good strategy, so long as you don't live in South Africa. μηδείς (talk) 19:04, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Whenever I'm walking my dog, I get asked directions constantly. (My wife as well.) We live in a city heavily frequented by tourists, and walk the dog in tourist-heavy areas (also heavy tourist areas, but that's another thing altogether), and the dog is a magnet for lost tourists. The reason is obvious, of course: only locals walk dogs. --Mr.98 (talk) 01:45, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

If you have already have a map, and are still confused despite it, then going to someone else with a map is often not going to be that helpful. But otherwise, I think it's a fairly complicated issue. If you're in a place where you don't speak the local language and the locals often don't speak your language, no matter how good the person you ask is at describing the place and no matter how well they know the geography, it's not going to help you if you don't understand them. But a map, provided it actually has the place in a language you understand (although in some cases symbols may be enough) and provided you can work out where you currently are on it, can provide the info you need even if you can barely communicate with the person holding it (and hopefully this communication will be enough that the person can indicate where you currently are, presuming they aren't lost as well). Also, a native's perspective and understanding of geography is not always good either. They may make assumptions about what is obvious or what you know without realising it or otherwise give directions poorly precisely because of these factors. Finally there's no guarantee the person will know the place you want to go to, even if it's a fairly well known place it's not uncommon in some areas that locals aren't that sure where touristy destinations are (at least not precisely enough to direct you there) since they aren't something they visit much if ever. (There's always the chance the map won't contain the destination you want, at least not in a way you will notice but depending on the place, you can often gauge how likely it is to be on a map.) Or perhaps they know how to get there, but only e.g. by car or some method of transport besides what you're using. Worse of course is if they think they do, but they don't.... (Of course you could have the same problem if you rely on the person holding the map to tell you where you are.) This has to be counterbalanced against the advantages of what may be immediately obvious to a native but not necessarily to someone with a map. Like you can go along this road, but you go up a very steep hill; going this other road although less direct and longer is a much easier walk/cycle. Or this road is very busy and has no footpath. Or whatever.... Either way of course, you can always ask someone else. Nil Einne (talk) 18:53, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't like to ask women for directions, because they refer to landmarks, which I invariably don't know. Men, on the other hand, give you street names, distances, and north/south/east/west directions, which is what I want. I'd ask a man with a map, too, since he could show me, and I absorb info much better visually than by spoken word. Alternatively, I might ask them to draw me a map, if paper and pen were available. And, of course, somebody friendly and not too busy would be my target. StuRat (talk) 21:04, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to see you try to navigate by compass directions in London! Alansplodge (talk) 00:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I prefer cities with a proper grid. StuRat (talk) 03:17, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Because most young folks don't wear watches these days, asking them for the time is a way to see how fancy a phone they're carrying. It was a ploy recently used by muggers in my city. HiLo48 (talk) 05:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I still think it's confirmation bias, but maybe I am also a "...non-aggressive-looking white male who dresses fairly conservatively" and who oftem wears a watch. When I visit a place, I tend to walk confidently, looking like I know where I'm going - even if I don't - and I keep the map (usually the hotel map ripped down and folded to just the area of interest) in a pocket. Perhaps that is why people seem to like asking me such questions. Astronaut (talk) 11:32, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, yes, I don't know if I could be described as "non-threatening" as I'm quite large, but perhaps more in a cuddly than violent way... Anyway, I'm reminded of the time I was in Munich and was asked the way to Schillerstrasse - I was amazed that not only did I know the way since I'd just come from there, but I managed to string enough German together to be able to tell the enquirer how to get there. Then there was the time in London when a Czech tourist asked me the way to Euston station, and since I was going there myself I was able to show her... -- Arwel Parry (talk) 13:02, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I toured the German Alps for my high school senior trip. People invariably address us in English, identifying us as Americans. But a Girl of about 18 came up to me to ask directions in a backstreet of Munich. Looked like Chiana from Farscape. Said she was Polish, and was lost. Man, was she lost, this was during the Cold War. Must have been hopped up on goofballs. I apologized, said I was not German, and walked away calmly but quickly. μηδείς (talk) 16:22, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Best answer, "Yes, thank you" and walk away! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.154.5 (talk) 06:10, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Or, if smart-ass answers are the goal, how about Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is? ? StuRat (talk) 06:20, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Or, "Sure, I've got the time...your place or mine ?". :-) StuRat (talk) 08:18, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

It happens to me in most countries I visit. When I was at school in a big city in China (I am British and caucasian), a Chinese guy came to me and asked in Chinese where the post office was (luckily I knew where it was). Many times while I lived in Japan people would come and ask me questions like that (actually one little kid fell and cut his leg, and out of the hundred or so people in the street around him, his friend came running to me asking for help). Here in Hungary people come up to me on a near daily basis asking me things, then when it becomes apparent that I can't speak Hungarian enough, they ask me in German or sometimes English. It happened to me a few times last time I was in Austria and I was only there for half an hour. It happened to me a lot in Germany while I was there for a week. Someone told me it's because I wear glasses, and therefore look more approachable. Weird that no-one notices the broken bottle in my hand :) KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 18:29, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad to hear it's not just me putting out some mysterious vibe that says "I'm approachable and will try to answer your questions" - but perhaps that's why I'm here on the ref desk too :-) So, who are all these lost souls wondering where the hell they are and what time it is? Seems like there's a hell of a lot of them asking for help from ref-desk regulars wherever they go. Astronaut (talk) 17:13, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

There's always the Cheech and Chong response: "I'm not into time, man." ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 22:12, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Well, like my Dad once said, "If we are here to help others, what are the others doing here?" KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 20:39, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Non-voters

I am looking for statistics about who the non-voting (but registered or eligible to be registered) US voters would vote for if they were to vote. Specifically, I am looking for statistics pertaining to the upcoming election between Romney and Obama. Obviously we don't know yet who will vote, but the polls are usually conducted for "likely voters". But has anybody bothered to poll the "unlikely voters"? I am looking for references; I am not looking to start a debate. Thanks, Falconus^{p t c} 16:28, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

They don't specifically poll likely voters. They poll people at random and one of the questions they ask is "how likely are you to vote?". They then filter the results to only include those that are likely to vote because that gives a better prediction of the actual election result. If you look at the raw polling data (which any reputable polling firm will publish) you should be able to get the unlikely voters' figures. --Tango (talk) 19:07, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Though, I could easily see how polling unlikely voters would be useful; one of the main parts of campaigning isn't convincing people to vote for you (indeed, the vast majority have already decided, well before the campaigns even started, who they are likely to vote for). Instead, campaigning is about getting the people who would vote for you anyways to the polls to actually do that (the bullshit term for this is "energizing the base", but what it really is is getting people who would never vote for the other guy anyways to just get off their asses and to the polling places). Finding out what people who aren't going to vote think is a good way to find out what you need to do to turn them into voters. --Jayron32 19:11, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

In the same vein, but less pleasant—it's not just about getting your own voters to show up; it's also about getting the other guy's voters to stay home. A lot of negative campaigning has that aim. In terms of the outcome, 'energizing' one member of your base has exactly the same effect as 'de-energizing' one of the other guy's voters. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 23:13, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

See voter suppression. StuRat (talk) 23:48, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Of course, voter suppression and negative campaigning are entirely separate concepts. Negative campaigning is about making a given candidate unattractive, whereas voter suppression is about making the act of voting unattractive (generally in such a way as to discourage participation by particular demographic groups). TenOfAllTrades(talk) 01:03, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

I believe Democratic leaning voters are less likely to vote. This is mostly due to demographic differences, such as many being poor and having to take buses to get to the polls, which can require both more time and money than somebody with a car, and potentially incur more risk, if this involves waiting for a bus in a dangerous neighborhood. There may also be a sense of hopelessness, leading to disenfranchisement: "It doesn't matter who you vote for, since the rich will just buy them off, either way". StuRat (talk) 20:54, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Nate Silver wrote an article about this subject recently: [1]. Paul (Stansifer) 14:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, that's the kind of information I was looking for! Thanks, everyone! Falconus^{p t c} 01:11, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Leisure time activity that people can enjoy, individually and with other people, for free?

What's a leisure time activity that people can enjoy, individually and with other people, for free? Rebel Yeh (talk) 19:40, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Sex? --Jayron32 19:49, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedophilia (possibly a subgroup of Jayron´s lemma) is much more fun and does not lead to visual dysfunction when pursued in a solitary state. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 20:43, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

I don't know. My eyes get tired and my vision gets blurry when I edit Wikipedia for a long time. I don't get the same effect from self love. SO I think you may have that backwards. --Jayron32 20:55, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Walks/jogs/runs. Exercises like sit-ups and jumping jacks. In some places you can swim for free, too.

Many games have a tiny initial purchase price, and then can be played for years. For example, a deck of playing cards can be used to play many games for years.

Similarly, singing is free, and karaoke just requires a basic radio, not a fancy karaoke machine.

Making up stories could be done alone, but is more fun with others. StuRat (talk) 20:45, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Reading. IMHO it is the absolute best solo activity, and has been for millennia and will be for millennia more. And gathering with friends to discuss what you have read or are reading is quite fun. (As for the free part, these groups are often hosted by public libraries, which provide the books as well.)    → Michael J Ⓣ Ⓒ Ⓜ 01:25, 1 September 2012 (UTC)