Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2024 February 24

Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

February 24

linked

Moses urged them to "don their linked war-coats." It is from an Old English book. What does 'linked' mean in this context? Thanks in advance. Omidinist (talk) 11:48, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

It's from a translation by Stopford A. Brooke of Exodus (poem), see here. "linked war-coats" means coats of chain-mail.

With the blare of brass at the break of day
All the folk to gather and the frack to rouse,
Don their linkèd war-coats, dream of noble deeds,
Bear their blickering armour, with their banners call
Nearer to the strand the squadrons! Swiftly then the watchmen
Now bethought them of the war-cry. Hastened was the host!
At the sound of shawms, on the sloping hills,
Struck their tents the sailors.

DuncanHill (talk) 12:04, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

That's it. Many thanks DuncanHill. Omidinist (talk) 12:16, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

My pleasure - I enjoyed looking that up. The phrase "don their linkèd war-coats" rang a bell. I must have read that 40-odd years ago, and never again since - but I remembered the meaning, and that it was a translation of one of those Anglo-Saxon versions of something either Classical or Biblical. After that google was a doddle! But as I say, a great pleasure to revisit the poem. DuncanHill (talk) 21:55, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

French words

If a word moins is pronounced /mwɛ̃/, how would a word pronounced as /moins/ be spelled? The closest example which I have found is nonsense world moïnesse, but it would be pronounced as /mɔinɛs/, so that the first e would be pronounced. If word chante is pronounced as /ʃɑ̃t/, then chanete would be pronounced as /ʃant/. --40bus (talk) 21:49, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

I assume moïnsse or moïnce would be enough, given ïn is not a known digraph for a nasal vowel. Nardog (talk) 22:00, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

An IPA translator gives the word moïnsse as /mɔˈɛ̃s/. And I didn't know that ⟨ss⟩ and be used also next to another consonant. --40bus (talk) 22:09, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

You could try doubling the "n" -- moïnnce -- though I don't think this would absolutely guarantee the intended pronunciation. AnonMoos (talk) 23:13, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

A final /-ins/ (and anything in /-nC/, where /C/ is any consonant) occurs only in non-assimilated loanwords and foreign names. Then, it's normal that they should lack a native and natural way to spell it. --Theurgist (talk) 15:33, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, French seems to lack a native /ɔɪ/ diphthong, anyway. /Vj/ is possible for stops, I guess. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 11:59, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

In South of France "moins" is pronounced by some people: \mwɛ̃s\. One can invent a French word and then try to pronounce it. Everyone knows that French is not spoken as it is written. I never read/heard the world "moïnesse". If I find it, for me there is a typo for "moinesse" (=female monk, old world, now "moniale") which I - French native speaker, Parisian - pronounce \mwa.nɛs\. About the non existent word "chanete", if I have to pronounce it I would say /ʃa.nɛt/ or /ʃa.nɛte/ or /ʃa.nete/, but for me an accent is missing or a double "t". – AldoSyrt (talk) 17:35, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Say, speak, talk, tell

Say, speak, talk, tell: Native speakers have no difficulty in choosing which verb to use in which context, and know that they are not generally interchangeable, but newbies to the language often struggle. Prima facie evidence is many of the questions we get on this ref desk.

Is there a handy guide that illuminates the differences and provides comfort for the afflicted? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:17, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

A search for say vs. speak vs. tell vs. talk is fruitful. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 01:10, 25 February 2024 (UTC)