Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2023 June 22

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June 22

How related is West Country English and Southern American English?

Southern American English and West Country English both pronounce their "r" sounds the same way and sound similar in some words. Is there a connection between the two dialects. 95.151.194.20 (talk) 15:32, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Rhoticity in English#England suggests that when the USA was first colonised by Britain standard English was rhotic (pronounced "r"). So both West Country English and American English preserve an older pronunciation. TSventon (talk) 16:40, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

But the Southern American and West Country dialects sound similar in some words. 95.151.194.20 (talk) 16:48, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I just saw the old Alfred Hitchcock film The Farmer's Wife and realize now that WCE is the source for many of the language's peculiarities, such as bain't and 'ee... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 17:04, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

When Did Colonial America Gain Linguistic Independence? says that a distinct American accent, quite different from any English regional one, had developed by 1770. It quotes an 18th-century newspaper advertisement in Virginia seeking a runaway servant: "The said Cole an Englishman, speaking remarkably on the West-Country Dialect...". Alansplodge (talk) 23:12, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Touching down

"Joe Biden has just touched down in Timbuktoo", etc.

We all know it's the aircraft that has touched down, not any of its passengers individually.

What's it called when an action is transferred from a vehicle to a passenger? And are there any similar examples? -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

Maybe a type of metonymy? Alansplodge (talk) 23:00, 22 June 2023 (UTC)

I concur with this suggestion. I'd classify such figures of speech under the umbrella of metonymy. Deor (talk) 22:36, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

If I call all metonymy "synecdoche", is that a pars pro toto? --Trovatore (talk) 22:39, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

It could be Synecdoche. Part of something is being used to refer to the whole: in this case Joe Biden, part of the aircraft, is being used to refer to the whole aircraft. On the other hand, did the aircraft touch down? What did the pilot do, then? If both of those touched down, is it possible that Joe Biden also touched down, in an indirect way, operating by proxy?

Possible example: When Ahmed Abdussal Gariani competed in the 1981 UCI Track Cycling World Championships, he got a puncture in the first round. Or there's the phrase "suffering a puncture". Jason Plato finished third after suffering a puncture ... Jackson also suffered a puncture ... or in cycling again we have Jean Majerus suffering a puncture in the final kilometres.  Card Zero  (talk) 00:42, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

From our article Danny Ongais: "Ongais also survived a spectacular barrel roll at the Michigan 500 at Michigan International Speedway when he ran into the slower car of Phil Krueger on the backstretch." Actually, Ongais did not run at the time of the accident, he was just sitting in his car when that car ran into another car. There are so many burning questions. Did Biden take off from Andrews Air Force Base? Air Force One took off, and if all goes well, when it takes off, it takes its passengers with it. Can an emu fly? Well, if Biden can fly to Timbuktoo, an emu can fly to Timbuktoo too. When, after a fundraiser in Los Gatos, "Biden drove up the peninsula to Atherton"^[1] for another fundraiser, I'm pretty sure he wasn't doing the driving. An image caption in the same article says that "President Joe Biden’s motorcade drives past Cypress Way and Phillips Ave on the way to a fundraiser in Los Gatos". I'm even more sure the motorcade wasn't doing the driving either; cars that are said to drive are actually being driven. For a converse issue, did Walt Whitman write "Leaves of Grass"? His pen wrote the words; he pushed the pen.  --Lambiam 11:16, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

This seems like pedantry of the same type as "This is not a pipe". Writers want to make things concise. The fact that the plane landed is not news. The fact that the president landed is news. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 14:26, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not sure that Jack was suggesting that it was wrong, rather than enquiring into the linguistic mechanism. Alansplodge (talk) 16:37, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Spot on, my friend. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 22:07, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

I think this is linked to the concepts of agency and corporate personality. For example, the word "bank" (apart from its riparian connotations) can mean the building, the company, or the people who work there. There is a legal maxim "Notice to the agent is notice to the principal" and the principal is bound by the act of his agent. You can break this down further - was it the pen that did the writing, or was it the nib? Or the ball in the nib, or the ink in the ball? 2A00:23C7:A103:CF01:41B0:80F8:1821:CB83 (talk) 17:01, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

If a puncture occurred, the driver suffered from it, no problem. —Tamfang (talk) 17:56, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Touching down --T*U (talk) 11:08, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

He was visiting a factory where they make winter jackets (for the export market; not much call for them locally) and they let him run his fingers through the insulating material. --Trovatore (talk) 22:18, 23 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh you, you .... :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 18:29, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

• Thanks for the answer. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 23:04, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Resolved