Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2021 March 26
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March 26
editApache language(s)
editI'm improving the article about the 1973 U.S. film Apache Blood, which was filmed under the working title Sh'e Ee Clit Soak – apparently a phrase in an Apache language. The opening narration of the movie claims this means "The man who wore the yellow shirt". Do we have any experts here who can advise precisely which language this is, and whether the translation is accurate? Thanks, Muzilon (talk) 00:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- Not an answer, but imdb claims the meaning is "A man called She".[1] This seems to be an alternative name for the film.[2]
When the working title was added to the article, this was also supplied as the translation.A possible reconciliation for these conflicting statements is that "A man called She" was meant to be short for "A man called Sh'e Ee Clit Soak". --Lambiam 10:51, 26 March 2021 (UTC)- IMDb is a "generally unreliable" source per WP:IMDB. The whole film is available online on the Internet Archive and YouTube (it's a poorly-made, low budget effort and I certainly can't be bothered sitting through the entire thing), but the narrator says the main character was known as "Sh'e ee clit soak: the man who wore the yellow shirt." There are various jokes online about "The World's Strangest Movie Titles", and "She Ee Clit Soak" rates a mention, although I'm guessing whoever compiled that list didn't realize it was supposed to be Apache. Muzilon (talk) 11:05, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- True, but the film's narration is IMO not any more reliable in the WP:RS sense. All we can say is that according to the film's narration, the phrase means "The man who wore the yellow shirt". The narrator does not even state that Sh'e ee clit soak (if that is how we should spell it) is a phrase in some Athabaskan language. If we trust the narration: the Native American tribe of the protagonist villain is identified as the Mescalero Apaches, so then it is a natural assumption that this is a phrase in the Mescalero-Chiricahua language. --Lambiam 16:00, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- Yup, so I'm hoping that Wikipedia, the world's greatest collaborative encyclopedia, will have an expert on the Mescalero Apache language(s) who can enlighten us. :) Muzilon (talk) 20:40, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- Muzilon, the number of editors who are active on the RefDesks is somewhat limited. You may want to try leaving a note at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America, where there is more likely to be some specialised knowledge. Alansplodge (talk) 14:47, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
- Yup, so I'm hoping that Wikipedia, the world's greatest collaborative encyclopedia, will have an expert on the Mescalero Apache language(s) who can enlighten us. :) Muzilon (talk) 20:40, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- True, but the film's narration is IMO not any more reliable in the WP:RS sense. All we can say is that according to the film's narration, the phrase means "The man who wore the yellow shirt". The narrator does not even state that Sh'e ee clit soak (if that is how we should spell it) is a phrase in some Athabaskan language. If we trust the narration: the Native American tribe of the protagonist villain is identified as the Mescalero Apaches, so then it is a natural assumption that this is a phrase in the Mescalero-Chiricahua language. --Lambiam 16:00, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- IMDb is a "generally unreliable" source per WP:IMDB. The whole film is available online on the Internet Archive and YouTube (it's a poorly-made, low budget effort and I certainly can't be bothered sitting through the entire thing), but the narrator says the main character was known as "Sh'e ee clit soak: the man who wore the yellow shirt." There are various jokes online about "The World's Strangest Movie Titles", and "She Ee Clit Soak" rates a mention, although I'm guessing whoever compiled that list didn't realize it was supposed to be Apache. Muzilon (talk) 11:05, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
British English mountaineering term
editIn Great Britain, is a rappel rack still a rappel rack, or do they call it by some other name? 2601:646:8A01:B180:14A7:71CD:B03E:18D4 (talk) 09:48, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- "Abseil rack" gets some hits from New Zealand websites. In my experience (I'm an instructor at a UK Scout activity centre), abseiling in the UK is done either with a figure-of-eight descender (most popular), or with a belay brake, or with one of those fancy French gadgets (especially in caving). I've seen an abseil rack in a shop once, but never seen one being used. However, everyone knows that "rappel" is the French and American word for "abseil", so it would be understood here. Why we use the German word instead of the French, I don't know, but British mountaineering jargon is a mostly mish-mash of those two languages used in the Alps (not many Italian words though). The original British term, "roping down", I believe was coined by Albert F. Mummery, but has been sadly lost over time. Alansplodge (talk) 17:27, 26 March 2021 (UTC)
- So, either "abseil rack" or "rappel rack" is correct -- but which is more commonly used? 2601:646:8A01:B180:ED83:C3B4:B352:EDB2 (talk) 10:52, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
- A bit more Googling finds "rack descender" on some UK sites, for caving use. In general though, "abseil" is the preferred term in British English, but in my opinion, these racks are rarely used here by climbers. Alansplodge (talk) 22:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks! 2601:646:8A01:B180:C950:DB2D:18A5:263 (talk) 07:52, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
- A bit more Googling finds "rack descender" on some UK sites, for caving use. In general though, "abseil" is the preferred term in British English, but in my opinion, these racks are rarely used here by climbers. Alansplodge (talk) 22:07, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
- So, either "abseil rack" or "rappel rack" is correct -- but which is more commonly used? 2601:646:8A01:B180:ED83:C3B4:B352:EDB2 (talk) 10:52, 27 March 2021 (UTC)