Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 March 21

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March 21

What does this poem mean?

This is from a song by Empyrium, "Mourners". Would someone kindly re-write it in a simpler language? Thanks.

Lost is the hope of those,

who walk the moors with pain in heart.

...and all joy it sinks,

burried deep, forever presumed dead.

What is that "it" in "all joy it sinks"? What is "burried deep and forever presumed dead"? -- 46.225.201.250 (talk) 19:18, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

The puzzle is the function of the word "it" in "all joy it sinks". Is it the direct object of the verb "sink"? Loose lips sink ships, but what does joy sink? There is no antecedent "it" can refer to. This does not look promising. Another possibility is that "it" is the subject and "joy" the object. In that case we have a poetic inversion of the more prosaic phrase "it sinks all joy". Then "it" could refer to the whole hopeless situation. Not quite convincing, but the best I can make of it. BTW, "lifes" and "burried" are nonstandard.  --Lambiam 20:50, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I'll take a flyer that "it" is the pain in the heart, which sinks all joy. --Trovatore (talk) 20:54, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Trovatore. The deep emotional pain that a mourner feels sinks (or prevents) the possibility of joy. To a mourner, it is as if the possibility of joy has been buried metaphorically just as the body of their loved one has been buried literally. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 22:13, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

I too agree. While the wanderers' "pain in the heart" cannot (semantically) be the object of the verb, as the subject it makes perfect sense. As to the OP's final question, that which is buried and presumed dead is all joy. Call me a pedant, but I think "forever presumed dead" should have been "presumed forever dead". It scans the same, so poetic metre cannot serve as an excuse.  --Lambiam 09:36, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

I think it is phrased "forever presumed dead" so that the emphasis is on "forever", the endless hopelessness. Putting "presumed" first makes it seem less certain and final. --Khajidha (talk) 15:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

I (native BrE speaker) don't think that it's possible to interpret the given extract definitively without the missing words (presumably) indicated by the ellipses. Absent those, I myself would have interpreted "it" to be "joy", though this would have been clearer with an additional comma between the two. Obviously if this is so the "it" is grammatically superfluous, but I think is poetically permissible to fit a metre or tune, and lends a certain emphasis by doubling up the subject: I'm sure I've seen similar usages in hymns.

(Incidentally, if "burried" is taken directly from the printed lyrics they are mistaken, and possibly an unreliable translation: in English it's spelled "buried.") {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.27.39 (talk) 10:30, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

The ellipsis does not stand for any missing words. The lyrics are also not translated; this is the text as heard on the soundtrack.  --Lambiam 16:51, 22 March 2020 (UTC)