Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2020 January 25

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January 25

Translation of Chinese from Alchemical Source

The following comes from the Yellow Court Classic. I'm reading about alchemy in English sources, but I'm not sure how to translate the following: "至道不煩無旁午，靈臺通天臨中野，方寸之中至關下，玉房之中神門戶，皆是公子教我者." I know in the context of alchemical literature, 靈臺 refers to the heart-mind and 方寸, while sometimes referring to the heart-mind, likely refers to the lowest of three dantiens where the mind is focused. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:40, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Spanish dialects

Is "Feliz Navidad" pronounced differently in Spanish from Spain, than in US Spanish? Particularly with regard to the dropped consonant at the end of Navidad in the US version, and similarly in other such words. Are the dialects as far apart as, say, Québécois French vs French from France? Thanks. 2601:648:8202:96B0:0:0:0:4FFF (talk) 21:14, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

In general, it would be pronounced /feˈliθ naβiˈðað/ in most of Spain and /feˈlis naβiˈðað/ in most Western Hemisphere dialects, the main difference being the "z" in "feliz" which is /θ/ in most of Spain and /s/ in the Americas. The /θ/ (in Spain) in that position could be slightly voiced in rapid speech. Also, in many dialects of American Spanish, final "s" may sound like English "h" or disappear altogether in casual speech. See Spanish phonology for more details. Just as an FYI, "US Spanish" is not monolithic; there are many dialects of Spanish spoken in the US including Mexican Spanish and Caribbean Spanish among others (see Spanish language in the United States#Spanish sub-types for more). There are also many dialects of Spanish spoken within Spain. Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "dropped consonant at the end of Navidad"? Both "d"s in "Navidad" are pronounced as [ð] (an English voiced "th" sound as in "the").--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 00:46, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

I'm thinking of a sound like "Feliz Navidahhh", e.g. in José Feliciano's song. I can't access youtube to listen to it right now but it is there. I didn't realize there was that much difference between North American Spanish dialects but looking at the articles, I guess there is. Thanks. 2601:648:8202:96B0:0:0:0:4FFF (talk) 03:49, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

In an English word like "granddad", the final "d" is pronounced as a stop with an audible release. The final "d" of Spanish "Navidad" is a dental approximant; there is no release. Although closely resembling the soft phoneme /ð/ of English, a dental fricative, its place of articulation is different, making it softer. Also, in American English, the voiced /ð/ is rarely heard word-final, and only before a following vowel. This may explain why this phoneme, not occurring so softly in English and not at all in this position in American English, can appear to have been dropped. Native Spanish speakers on either side of the Atlantic will have no problem hearing it.  --Lambiam 18:11, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Do you mean a sound like the "th" in bathe or lathe? Hmm ok. When I described a dropped d, I didn't mean completely eliminated, but maybe shortened like the "u" in "ohio gozaimasu" if that makes any sense. I'll listen to the Feliciano track again when I can use an audio player soon. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 22:35, 26 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that is the voiced dental fricative. BTW, the final vowel in ohayō gozaimasu is not so much shortened as voiceless, indicated by the small circle below the [ɨᵝ] in the IPA transcription [o̞ha̠jo̞ː ɡo̞za̠ima̠sɨ̥ᵝ].  --Lambiam 12:04, 27 January 2020 (UTC)

Here's José singing the song [1] [2] and here's a cover version [3]. 2A00:23C5:C710:1F00:3103:A481:F923:CC05 (talk) 19:19, 27 January 2020 (UTC)