Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2019 March 3

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March 3

Complementary/complimentary used in advertising?

Can anyone remember when complementary was the word used when an advertiser was offering some bonus along with your purchase? I was sure it was the correct word, and was affronted by the spread of complimentary, only to discover it's correct. Am I going through a bit of a Mandela Effect here, or was complementary the more common word up until about the 70s or 80s?

Thanks, Adambrowne666 (talk) 03:13, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

"Complimentary" means basically "as a compliment", and is a single word more or less corresponding to the phrase "with the compliments of the house". "Complementary" describes something which is the other half or other part to something else (yin to yang or whatever). The words are frequently misspelled, but "complimentary" has always been correct in this meaning. AnonMoos (talk) 03:48, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, thanks, I realise that now, to my chagrin, but complementary would do just as well, IMHO. I just want to see if anyone else has this memory, or if it's just me. Adambrowne666 (talk) 04:25, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

With regard to free stuff, complimentary is correct. The free stuff is given to spread good feelings to the purchaser. Complementary has always meant "that which completes something", and the free stuff isn't there to complete anything. It's just there to make you feel good about the company who gives it to you. --Jayron32 13:41, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your replies, I am grateful that this isn't being ignored; I'm still hoping though that someone can help with my original question: did anyone here make the same error when younger? Did you think complement meant compliment? I realise now I wasnt taking it to mean completing, but additional. I see by Webster's 1913 that the spellings were once interchangeable. Apparently Shakespeare used the one to mean the other. Was I seeing ads that were using the old spelling? I mean, I'm old, but I'm not Elizabethan. Adambrowne666 (talk) 20:33, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I'm not sure Mandela effect is appropriate here. People used the incorrect word in the past, just as they do today. I did an image search of "complementary newspaper" (with quotes), which brought up a handful of very recent pictures where the writer has used the incorrect spelling. I also did an image search on "complementary coffee" newspaper and got endless jokey pictures of coffee mugs paying compliments, but I also interestingly found an image of someone hyper-correcting one of those images, suggesting that the "i" spelling was a mistake. Matt Deres (talk) 20:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Good answer, thank you. I was once that hypercorrector - indignantly insisting on the E. You're right, maybe it's not the Mandela effect; maybe it's more like that thing where the first thing you see, esp at a formative age, is taken to be correct. Works in movies too. I tend to identify with the first character I see, and stick by them even when it becomes clear they're the one in the wrong. Adambrowne666 (talk) 22:13, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Collins' Thesaurus A-Z (ed. Robert Groves, Glasgow 2009, ISBN 978-0-00-729035-2) has guidance on confusingly similar words. In addition to the pair discussed they also highlight (among others):

alternate, alternative; all together, altogether;

beside, besides;

comprise, consist;

discreet, discrete;

affect, effect; elusive, illusive; every one, everyone; extract, extricate;

flounder, founder;

historic, historical;

last, latter; lay, lie; lightening, lightning; luxuriant, luxurious;

happen, occur;

partially, partly; passed, past; phenomena, phenomenon; pour, pore; practicable, practical; prescribe, proscribe; principal, principle;

reaction, response; reign, rein; replace, substitute;

sang, sung; stationary, stationery.

Japanese name check #5

三枝龍生 - Sagusa Ryusei or Ryusei Sagusa ? Thanks GrahamHardy (talk) 14:47, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

GrahamHardy, the first two characters (left to right) are Sagusa, and the last two Ryusei. Is that what you want to know. --ColinFine (talk) 17:39, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Brilliant thanks, I'm happy GrahamHardy (talk) 09:09, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

The surname name Warmbier

Does the surname mean warm beer? Can it mean anything else? If it means warm beer, does that mean a person who warms beer for customers by sticking a hot poker into the stein? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 19:24, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

It is the literal German translation of "warm beer", and I would be surprised if it turns out that that's not the origin. I have never heard of the hot poker thing. What made you think of that? Is that a real thing? --Trovatore (talk) 21:17, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, 'mulled ale' (surprisingly, no article) thus warmed (to about hot coffee/tea temperature) used to be a popular winter drink in England (and presumably elsewhere) up to at least the 19th century. I myself occasionally still drink mulled porter (usually with an added measure of gin, making a 'dog's nose'), though the modern method of microwaving doubtless doesn't quite recreate the taste imparted by a red hot poker heated in an open fire. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.122.1.40 (talk) 21:34, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Foods of England Project - Mulled Ale. Seems to be confined to our shores though (also gets a mention in The Wind in the Willows). Alansplodge (talk) 23:13, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Warmbier in German means or used to mean a drink more akin to a sort of beer soup (cf. DWB). However, I wouldn’t rule out that his last name might actually be a malapropism and originally meant something else entirely. Family names are complicated. Cheers ✦ _hugarheimur 21:44, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Yes, my last name supposedly translates as "army of elves". I'm skeptical.

Very interesting stuff, all! BTW Torana's link doesn't go directly to a definition, but it gives you a link from which you can find the following: WARMBIER, n. aufgekochtes bier mit zuthaten, wie eier, milch, mehl, brot und gewürzen. --Trovatore (talk) 21:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

This site suggests that the surname is a takeover either from a profession (a brewer) or from a person's favourite dish. The site also mentions the first recorded person with that surname, in 1795. This is shortly after the Patent über die Judennamen, which compelled Jews to adopt German surnames, starting in Austria. --Wrongfilter (talk) 22:13, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

@Trovatore: Sorry, that was the permalink Wörterbuchnetz gave me (and these used to work in the past). They seem to have made half-a**ed changes recently. Cheers ✦ _hugarheimur 23:13, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you all for the very interesting information. I am grateful. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 07:01, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

One more source: this page (crap source, but it cites the Dictionary of American Family Names from the OUP) supports the idea that it refers to a brewer. Henry^Flower 08:06, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Is there any chance that it refers to someone who brews (or drinks) beer in the English way i.e. "warm" top-fermented beer, rather than traditional "cold" bottom-fermented beer? Matt Deres (talk) 13:52, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Cold/bottom fermentation isn't "more traditional" than warm/top fermentation. The latter is undoubtably older because beer was (so far as we know) first brewed in the Middle East/North Africa. Cold fermentation arose in the particular circumstances of continental-climate Western Europe when beer could not be brewed all year round, so had to be stored in cooler conditions for extended periods instead of being drunk soon after brewing. The 'top' and 'bottom' fermenting descriptions of the contrasting strains of yeasts are actually exaggerated descriptions of slight tendencies – for most of the fermentation both yeasts are distributed throughout the beer. Equally, the difference in the drinking temperatures of beers and lagers became more pronounced only in recent times after ice and cooling mechanisms became freely available. English beers' "cellar temperature" was not so different from that of Continental ur-lagers. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.123.27.125 (talk) 18:50, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

Granted, but we're talking within the context of semi-modern Germany, not ancient Iraq. :-) In Germany, people drinking/brewing "warm" beer would be noteworthy because it contrasts against the cultural norms. Matt Deres (talk) 19:34, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

However, the subject is the origin of a surname, which I suspect would have been adopted some time before the invention of refrigeration. Alansplodge (talk) 11:01, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Again, granted, but so what? Germans were brewing cold, low-fermenting, beer long before refrigeration (though that was one of the first areas used for artificial refrigeration) by making use of cold cellars, ice harvested during the winter, and so on. See Lager#History_of_lager_brewing for more. They drink cold beer. Someone who brewed or drank warm beer would be noted, just as southern Americans have to specify "hot" tea and most other folks have to specify "iced" tea - those are the varieties that are notable for their difference from the cultural norm. Matt Deres (talk) 14:17, 7 March 2019 (UTC)