Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2017 October 1

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October 1

Spanish b/v, English b/p, Mandarin b/p, Korean b/p

English b and p seem to be very distinct. Mandarin b and p also seem very distinct. Korean b and p sound indistinguishable. So are Spanish b and v sounds. I once accidentally thought one said b, even though it was v. Also, Spanish r and rr are supposed to be pronounced differently, but native speakers still roll the tongue for the r sound. Eh? I have a couple of questions.

1. Is the Spanish b like the English b at all?
2. Why do native Spanish speakers roll the tongue on the single r?
3. Is there a difference between the Korean b and Chinese b? 50.4.236.254 (talk) 18:06, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

• (I took the liberty of numbering your questions for ease of answering.) 1: Yes, but b is not the same as v. 2: Because they do. Single is tapped; double is trilled. Try reading Spanish_language#Phonology. Bazza (talk) 19:55, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Neither Mandarin nor Korean have a /b/ phoneme. In Mandarin the contrast is between unaspirated /p/ (which is represented in pinyin by the letter <b>) and aspirated /pʰ/ (which is represented in pinyin by the letter <p>). In Korean there is a three-way contrast between /p/, /pʰ/ and tense /p͈/. However, a [b] sound does occur in both languages as an allophone. In Korean, /p/ is pronounced as [b] when it occurs between two voiced sounds; in Mandarin /p/ is pronounced as [b] when it begins a "weak" syllable. See Korean phonology and Standard Chinese phonology for more complete descriptions.--William Thweatt ^TalkContribs 20:34, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

No. 1, no, Spanish b is not like English b most of the time. In some instances, they are about the same. A 'b' at the beginning of a Spanish sentence or phrase sounds like an English b. Also, when 'b' follows an 'm' or 'n', it sounds like English b. In the other cases, the Spanish 'b' sounds almost like a 'v' (it's like 'v', except the bottom lip does not touch the upper front teeth... the bottom lip is in a neutral position and not touching the teeth at all). As for Spanish 'b' and 'v', they are pronounced the same. A 'v' at the beginning of a Spanish sentence or phrase sounds like an English b. Also after the consonants 'm' and 'n'. Otherwise, it sounds almost like a 'v'. That's why so many native Spanish-speakers misspell words with a 'b' or 'v'. They are pronounced exactly alike.

No. 2, they roll the single 'r' because that's how it's pronounced. The single 'r' gets a single tap. The double 'rr' gets 3 or 4 taps or more. —Stephen (talk) 10:25, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

It's easier just to use the IPA symbols, and say that [b] and [β] are allophones in Spanish... AnonMoos (talk) 17:00, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

A more general answer to your questions, OP, is that most of us hear only the distinctions which our own language makes. For most English speakers, the 'p' sound in the words "pin" and "spin" is different - it is aspirated ([pʰ]) in "pin", but not in "spin". (Hold a hand in front of your mouth when you say them to check this). Most English speakers are not aware that there is a difference in the sound, because it is not significant in English phonology. But that is exactly the different between Mandarin <b> and :lt;p>. Conversely, Spanish speakers often have difficulty hearing the difference between /b/ and /v/ in English, because they are not regarded as different sounds in Spanish. See phoneme for more on this. --ColinFine (talk) 20:10, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

What exactly is the "tenseness" people talk about in Korean consonants? This video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg-VZxBIZjo) claims that there is also a natural change in pitch depending on which of the three consonants is pronounced. --178.10.122.251 (talk) 23:08, 2 October 2017 (UTC)

I did hear a difference between kah, kah, and gah, even though I suspect I'm accidentally inserting tonality into the Korean language, when Korean is not a tonal language. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 00:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Korean phonology. See also tenseness and especially phonation which discuss phenomena that are rare or not distinctive in types of voicing found in European languages, but which are common elsewhere. μηδείς (talk) 01:25, 6 October 2017 (UTC)