Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 March 28

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March 28

For alphabetical order, are abbreviated words considered to be completely spelled out or not?

When you alphabetize a phrase like "Dr. Jones" or "Mr. Jones" or "St. Joseph" or "Main St.", is that alphabetized as if the word were abbreviated (which it is) or as if the word were completely spelled out (Doctor, Mister, Saint, Street, etc.)? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:08, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

second part of first question with answer...http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qanda/data/faq/topics/Alphabetizing.html 68.48.241.158 (talk) 18:52, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

No ref for you, but in my experience in America Mr. Jones or Dr. Jones would be alphabetized under Jones, whereas St. Joseph would be alphabetized the same as Saint Joseph, under S then a. Loraof (talk) 23:57, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

(edit conflict) If it's the title of a book, movie, or similar work, you treat the phrase as if it's spelled out. Doctor Who would go in the D's.

If it's a person, you ignore titles such as doctor, mister, or saint; and generally ignore the title. Dr. Hu would go in the H's. Titles are open to change and are not as inherent as names. You'd also do the same for street because there's alternate forms such as avenue, road, etc.

The University of Dartmouth's Library filing rules may help with future questions.

The ref provided by the IP says to drop the title, not to "do it letter by letter, to not confuse people who do not know what the abbreviation stands for.." He seems to have confused this unrelated answer which is about a different problem altogether. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:14, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

on closer look it's answered in the first question on that link, says depends if you chose to go word by word or letter by letter....68.48.241.158 (talk) 00:29, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

For books yes, for people no. Ian.thomson (talk) 00:34, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

? the question there asks how author (person) St. George should be alphabetized..68.48.241.158 (talk) 00:42, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Once again, there is no single correct answer. It depends on your purposes. --69.159.61.172 (talk) 04:18, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

My purposes: putting a list in correct order for Wikipedia articles. Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:47, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

What about sorting within Wikipedia categories (using DEFAULTSORT keyword in article) ? GrahamHardy (talk) 15:30, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Article titles appear in category listings, and are sorted by first word, then second word etc. Defaultsort simply replaces the article title with some other text string. For example, The Dr Blake Mysteries would sort under T for The. Adding a Defaultsort set to "Dr Blake Mysteries, The" makes it sort under D for Dr, and that would come after "Doctor Kildare" (or Doctor anybody else) but before "Duty Calls". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:20, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, all. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:47, 30 March 2016 (UTC)