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Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2016 January 28

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January 28

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19th century French forms

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I'm trying to extract information about André Sordet from this record. My schoolboy French failed me when I got to the part which says: Marié le 1r Septembre 1888 à d______... The clerk has then (I think) written in elle in superscript after the "d" and before the wife's full name. What was the intention of the "d" printed on the form and what does "delle" mean please? Alansplodge (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Presumably "demoiselle", but I'm not sure why the clerk has filled in the abbreviation, or what would be written on the form when someone marries a widow. Tevildo (talk)
Rather than "demoiselle", I'm pretty sure it is "damoiselle". Another clue is the way his mother is named "Dame" in this form. I'm not sure about a widow, but I wouldn't be surprised if the term was "Dame" for a widow. Akseli9 (talk) 19:58, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both, it makes some sense now. I was trying to make it mademoiselle, but I suppose if you take off the "ma" the answer is there. Alansplodge (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
So, to make it explicit, the reason the clerk has filled in part of the appreviation is that d might begin either dame or damoiselle. Similarly higher on the form, note how another d is completed by turning it into du; if the man had come from a different canton it might have become de l' or perhaps de la. Anything to save one character of handwriting! --76.69.45.64 (talk) 04:32, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I suppose it also drops a heavy hint as to what information is required on a particular line. Alansplodge (talk) 08:47, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
French legal vocabulary used Sieur, for a male person; Dame, for a married or a widow female person; Demoiselle for a non-married female person. See (in French) [1] and [2] (section 2, DR) — AldoSyrt (talk) 09:07, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Your source explains how to call someone with an article, "le sieur", "la dame", "la demoiselle". Without the article as it is presented in the form, it is not "demoiselle", it is "damoiselle". Akseli9 (talk) 11:42, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
From my source, without article: "L'acquéresse, demoiselle L'Huillier (Barrès, Colline insp.,1913, p. 186)" . Using an article or not is not relevant. From the same source [3] damoiselle, is not a word from French legal vocabulary (marked in this dictionary with 'DR' for DROIT) Please give us your sources. AldoSyrt (talk) 14:49, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. The last piece of the puzzle falls into place. Alansplodge (talk) 11:16, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
  Resolved
  • I know it's resolved, but I felt this might add some clarity to the confusion here. The two french words have always been "dame" and "demoiselle", and the modern forms just include the article for "my" in the front (ma), making "madame" and "mademoiselle". There's a false etymology I expect at play here, an overcorrection where the a in "dame" is influencing its appearance in the incorrect "damoiselle". FWIW, see the etymology of the English words damsel and dame. Notably, the origin of demoiselle in Middle French was spelled with an "a", but for centuries it's been demoiselle. --Jayron32 17:25, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
After the French Revolution the possessive determiners (mon, ma) were removed from the words monsieur, madame, mademoiselle. The corresponding words sieur, dame, demoiselle were used afterwards. Nowadays French use the old words except in legal language. (Sorry I have no time to give sources) — AldoSyrt (talk) 08:56, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
[User:Tevildo] was correct from the start, and [User:AldoSyrt]. Sorry, my confusion came from the using of Damoiselle as preferred to Demoiselle among some people such as the one we see in the form (an officer in the army, with a noble mother). These forms were conveniently allowing interpretation without showing it, but the "official" (or "republican") word was Demoiselle, rather than Damoiselle. Akseli9 (talk) 10:00, 1 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Name of position sought

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Hello, hope you guys are well. I would like to ask something and is as follows (delete if it’s considered inappropriate…): I’ve been going through this Sex position article, my English is not very good and I’m not understanding it very well. I’m searching for the “name of the position” where the girl is laying face down, bum up and the guy is on top. Regards. -- Mr. Zoot Cig Bunner (talk) 19:10, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Per the article, it's one of the variants of Doggy style. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 19:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Nik el kohoul" according to (Burton's translation of) The Perfumed Garden, incidentally. Tevildo (talk) 20:26, 28 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'll read through guys. Thanks. -- Mr. Zoot Cig Bunner (talk) 06:10, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Found it! Belly down... Waisted 296Mb to find the name though, still,   -- Mr. Zoot Cig Bunner (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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