Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2013 July 14

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July 14

"At the museum" or "in the museum"?

How should we name categories like Category:Self-propelled artillery at the Panzermuseum Thun and Category:Tanks in the Bovington Tank Museum? And is there any difference in preposition usage between categories with exhibits inside the museum building(s) and outdoors, like here? Ain92 (talk) 17:38, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

There is little difference between the two, and in most cases either preposition will fit. "At" makes more sense if the exhibit is outdoors, but even then no-one will complain about misrepresentation, because something can be "in the museum" if it is in the museum garden or courtyard. Generally, I slightly prefer "in". Itsmejudith (talk) 17:42, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

A possible distinction, but one which I doubt is systematically made, is that something "in" a museum might be presumed to be part of that museum's permanent inventory, while something "at" a museum might instead be on loan, perhaps as part of a travelling exhibition. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.213.246.168 (talk) 20:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Events happen at museums, objects are displayed in them, and redirects exist to cover differences in usage. Simply create a redirect. μηδείς (talk) 20:49, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

The makers of Night at the Museum and the writer of the book on which it was based may or may not have given this question a great deal of thought. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 21:17, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Here's what I read about difference in usage between in and at in Common Mistakes in English by T. J. Fitikides: "We use in to describe the physical location of something as part of a larger thing or place (like Liam has a flat in Paris). We use at when we're talking about an address, a public place or building (a bus stop, the Post Office, the library etc.) and cases in which the location is irrelevant but what we do there is what matters (school, the dentist, dance class etc.)". Omidinist (talk) 04:42, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

To me, "at the museum" means located anywhere within close proximity of the museum, where 'proximity' is a relative term; "in the museum" means located specifically within the museum building, or some other definitive boundary that constitutes the 'museum'. Plasmic Physics (talk) 04:52, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

That doesn't work for me: in answer to "Where were you this afternoon?", "I was at the museum" can only mean I was inside the museum (or its grounds if it has some outdoor exhibits). In contrast: "Did you get caught in that thunderstorm?" - "No, I was in the museum when in happened" (as opposed to somewhere outside). AndrewWTaylor (talk) 20:53, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

The answer could well be: "Yes I did. I was at the museum when it happened, but unfortunately not in the museum. I was enjoying the sculpture garden, and had to make a dash for the entrance, but my efforts were in vain". -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasant conversation]} 22:49, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. "At the museum" could also mean that the person was waiting in line to get into the museum, or they were waiting for friend on the sidewalk by the museum. All ins are ats, but not all ats are ins. Plasmic Physics (talk) 05:08, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

All ins are ats? I don't think that is quite true. The books are at the box? I'm at my bedroom? 86.151.119.226 (talk) 19:27, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Your propositions aren't wrong, people just don't talk like that. Plasmic Physics (talk) 23:14, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Arabic title question

What is the Arabic title of the document at http://www.csdccs.edu.on.ca/publications/depliant-cic-FR_AR.pdf ? (See third page) Thanks WhisperToMe (talk) 18:22, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

The Arabic is " !عائلة واحدة و متعاونة...إنها عائلتك". Adam Bishop (talk) 19:06, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Adam! WhisperToMe (talk) 23:44, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Correct English nomenclature for land forces of the Third Reich?

In English-language articles dealing with the Second World War, what is the correct term to use for (a) the regular army (b) the military SS (c) the various home defence units (d) formations combining any of these? --Hors-la-loi 18:30, 14 July 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hors-la-loi (talk • contribs)

I believe we use the Germans terms.

• Wehrmacht
• SS
• Volksgewehr

KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 18:58, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

The Wehrmacht actually refers to the armed forces as a whole. I think German Army is more common than Heer, but for the rest, the German names are usually used. (b) would be the Waffen-SS. I'm not sure what the OP means by (c) and (d), but see Volkssturm and Wachdienst. Volksgewehr is the name of a shotgun. Lesgles (talk) 19:26, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Alle Angaben ohne Gewehr. Angr (talk) 19:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

pronunciation question

How do we pronounce the name Mannlicher? his family were firearms makers. our guys are snickering, saying "man licker" can this be correct? 24.166.97.24 (talk) 22:11, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

How can we possibly tell how a particular person pronounces his name? There's a more-or-less normal way to pronounce it in German (with some variation as to how the 'ch' sounds in different parts of the German speaking world), and if the person in question is German, that will probably be the way to do it. But if he is English or American, it is anybody's guess how the family have decided to pronounce it. --ColinFine (talk) 23:25, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Depends, how far are you and your guys from Intercourse? μηδείς (talk) 00:51, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Near there, I think, but a long way from Condom. Itsmejudith (talk) 10:46, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, that the french call what we call condoms "préservatifs" is very odd. Scared to death to know what they call bras. μηδείς (talk) 21:47, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

fr:Soutien-gorge. Unfortunately, it wasn't invented by anyone named Otto Titzling, Hans Delving or Philippe de Brassiere. See p. 2. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasant conversation]} 22:33, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

And half a world away from Fucking. -- Jack of Oz ^[Talk] 11:33, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

And how long have you been waiting for that? The poor Fuckingers, always having their sign stolen by rampaging British tourists.....and I might just throw in Bitsch (yes, the pronounciation in German is like your word for the female....), and the fabulous Wank mountain. Lectonar (talk) 19:25, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

The John F. Kennedy assassination rifle was (apparently erroneously) referred to as a Mannlicher-Carcano, and as I recall, the first syllable of "Mannlicher" was stressed, and the "ch" part was part of the third syllable, not the second. Hence, MAN-lih-cur. Also spoken faster (being one word instead of two) than if you were actually trying to say "man liquor" or whatever. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 05:00, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I think in German the name would simply have be "Männlicher", with the the dreaded umlaut. With the umlaut replaced with the "a", "man-liqour" comes quite near, pronounciation-wise. Lectonar (talk) 07:57, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

No, the German name of the company Steyr Mannlicher and its founder Ferdinand Mannlicher didn't have an umlaut. The German pronunciation is [ˈmanlɪçɐ]. The second half doesn't really sound like "licker"/"liquor" in German because the "ch" part is not a [k] but a palatal fricative, roughly like the devoiced glide sound that you can hear between the [k] and the [u] in a word like "cure". Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:10, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Or like hue for many people. — Lfdder (talk) 19:54, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, I was a bit unprecise..."man liquor" would come near if you had english-language users pronouncing it, not Germans. And thanks for the link: I did not even know about this Austrian aristocrat. Lectonar (talk) 08:26, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

• I'd be surprised if people familiar with the name didn't pronounce it "man-lisher" which is about as close as you can get to the German in American. Like "Boehner" being called bay-ner. That being said, this guy is presumably an expert and can be expected to have heard others name the gun, and he does call it a man licker, even with a separate accent on the verb! μηδείς (talk) 18:58, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

  Well, actually the licker-pronounciation might just be a tongue in cheek thing, as in: "You have been licked (by this fabulous gun). That is why we call it a man-licker". Lectonar (talk) 19:13, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

I note the juxtaposition of "man licker" with "tongue in cheek".  :) -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasant conversation]} 22:44, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Pimsleur manual for Conversational and Basic French CDS

I recently borrowed two items from the library here in Toronto: Conversational French and Basic French. Is there a website which I can download the manuals for those two? --Donmust90 (talk) 23:49, 14 July 2013 (UTC)Donmust90

www.pimsleur.com. Specifically, this page. Tevildo (talk) 19:45, 15 July 2013 (UTC)