Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 June 5

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June 5

Hanja Document.

I would appreciate it if someone could translate what the Hanja circled in red says. The whole document if you have the time, please.

Hanja Document

Thank you. Quietmartialartist 01:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

it's the post and name of some Taekwondo master. It reads "青濤館館長嚴雲奎". His name can be transliterated Eom un-gyu, if I'm not mistaken. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 01:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Or Um, Woon Kyu? Quietmartialartist 01:56, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Chung Do Kwan kwan-jang Eom Un-gyu. That could be Um Woon Kyu in suitably random Romanization. (Eom / Um is the family name, Un-gyu is the given name). --Reuben 03:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Any idea why "public building" is written twice on that line? How should "青濤館館長嚴雲奎" be read in English? Quietmartialartist 15:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

That's kwan. The first three characters are Chung Do Kwan, i.e. one of the branches of Tae kwon do. The next two are kwan-jang, the leader of that branch. I don't know if there's a conventional English equivalent in Tae kwon do, perhaps Master or something like that. The last three characters are his name, Eom Un-gyu. The other lines are put together in the same way, (branch of Tae kwon do) (kwan-jang) (person's name) (signature in Roman alphabet) --Reuben 17:56, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Very rough translation:

Dear Masters!

This is a national, historical request, now that Taekwondo, our national martial art, is standing up for our nation worldwide. I urge all the Masters abroad to show our love of our country and show off (in Korea and abroad) Korea's supremacy and lead the way in making Taekwondo a global sport.

Last of all I wish with a faithful heart that you'd be insert something about the future being good , everyone who's devoting themselves to the spread and development of Taekwondo.

List: Members of insert name of Korean Taekwondo Organization here (Ganada (sort of like alphabetic) order)

--Kjoonlee 19:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Quietmartialartist 15:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Language choice

Hello everyone,

This is my first post on Wikipedia. I am 16 years old, and I live in Philadelphia, PA. I want to start learning a new language over the summer, and I am already learning German in school. I have narrowed it down (pretty much) to Welsh, Russian, Bulgarian and Romanian (less likely Polish, Hungarian, Albanian, Croat, or Slovak/Czech. I am interested primarily in the first four ones, but the others are an option as well. I am looking to become fluent in the language for mostly cultural reasons, and they all interest me culturally. I am also interested in the beauty of the language. I am an Amateur Radio operator, so I can practice the language sometimes as well. I am not worried about learning Cyrillic either, as I find that alphabet interesting (history-wise and the characters themselves). I know this is not too much information to go by, but what would you recommend? Also, what courses would you recommend for me? I am going to be learning alone (maybe with a friend), and I was looking at the Colloquial Courses or the Teach Yourself courses, but also the independent courses for each language (ex: Beginner's Welsh, by Heini Gruffudd or Intensive Bulgarian, Vol. 1: A Textbook & Reference Grammar by Ronelle Alexander and Olga M. Mladenova). What do you think? Thank you very much for the help!!!

Transcription

Well, Russian obviously has by far the greatest body of literature available, which is something you might want to consider. Also, it's the language you're most likely to be able to eventually take classes in in college or something down the line if you tire of learning it yourself, or get to the point where you feel you could use some outside instruction. -Elmer Clark 06:15, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I haven't studied any of the others, but I have enjoyed learning Russian! If you really want to accumulate languages, either Russian or Bulgarian will give you a big leg up on learning the other. The grammar's different, but there's a lot of shared vocabulary, which tends to be recognizable - maybe it's just the superficial similarity in spelling, but I can more easily read basic material in Bulgarian than in any other Slavic language based on knowing some Russian. Of course it's your own interest that matters most, but I think you won't go wrong studying Russian. Желаю Вам успехов! Unfortunately, I can't really recommend a textbook or self-study course for you. --Reuben 06:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I loved learning Russian and speaking it. I can only agree with what's above: Russian has a far wider selection of literature, both classic and modern. (In particular, if you wanted to read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, for example, it'll be easier to get a Russian copy than Bulgarian or Romanian.) Some universities may offer one of the other languages, but it will be rare. For example, UPenn offers a number of Russian courses, but doesn't offer any of the other three. The same is true of Temple, Bryn Mawr, and Swarthmore, as far as I can tell. These include introductory courses, for learning the language, and literature courses, if you're interested in reading Dostoyevsky, Bulgakov, Pushkin, Solzhenitsyn in the original language (my favorite authors in Russian). Finally, something I've found great pleasure in is speaking Russian with friends and people I meet; this happens all this time, across the country. Russian is more common in the US than any of your other 8 languages (Polish is closest) — in addition, Philadelphia has the second-highest concentration of Russian speakers in the US, after New York.

This sounds pretty one-sided, but all these arguments aside: you'll enjoy learning and speaking a language more if it's a language you're really excited about. There's more opportunity to speak French than English in the parts of the US where I've lived (thanks Canada!), but I never had any interest in French and hated studying it. If you think you'll enjoy Welsh more than Russian, then study that. You can certainly find opportunities to pursue any language if you want to (you may just have to work harder). Towards that end, in my searches I found this essay about a love for Welsh. Tesseran 08:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Welsh is a beautiful language, with only Finnish and Icelandic coming close (coincidentally, Finnish and Welsh were the two languages Tokien based his Elvish languages on, because of their sound and flow). Of your choices, Russian is the most practical, and has the most literature, but learning another alphabet is harder than you think, and it's not as pleasant to the ear as Welsh (or even Romanian/Bulgarian). If I were to learn a new language, I would choose Portugese. Neil ╦ 11:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I find it rather silly to learn a language based on its alleged mellifluity. The sound of Romanian is horrendous. Russian may be as dulcet as Italian if you read the right text. Of all living languages, only English, Russian, and French have literatures I care about. They have varied vocabulary capable of expressing the subtlest processes of feeling and thought. If I had enough time for learning another language, I would settle for one of those dead but oh so cultivated languages, with Latin, Sanskrit and Old Norse springing in mind. --Ghirla^-трёп- 11:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Since the main purpose of literacy is to read and write Wikipedia articles, you might be interested in these article counts for the languages in question:

German      - 593,582 
Polish      - 386,381
Russian     - 177,164
Czech       -  68,661
Romanian    -  65,361
Hungarian   -  60,884
Bulgarian   -  39,715
Albanian    -  15,421
Croat       -  11,104
Welsh       -   9,312

I added German since you already know some, and I personally would spend my time learning one language well rather than having some sub-fluent smattering in a number of them, though that has value, too (and makes a great party trick if you enjoy eating glass). --TotoBaggins 12:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I have the deepest respect for Germans and all the abstract terms they introduced but how they speak about "Pferd" (horse) or "Schlange" (snake) without bursting out in laughter escapes me. Neither could Tolstoy and Nabokov solve this mystery. --Ghirla^-трёп- 15:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Another funny one is their word for raccoons: "wash bears". :D --TotoBaggins 15:34, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ah, it will always remain a mystery to those whose ears never learned that Schlange and Pferd are among the most normal words in the world! And à propos wash bears, German also has soft animals, lazy animals, crawly animals, stinky animals, little bear animals, gnawing animals (the seven-sleeper among them), and of course Willy-on-Wheelsy animals. Then again, some of the corresponding names in English mean similar or equally funny things, but go unnoticed because they're borrowed from Greek or Latin. ---77.56.100.189 17:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

For Russians Pferd and Schlange are funny because they sound like "flatulence" and "hose", respectively. --Ghirla^-трёп- 17:46, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The second pair is probably no coincidence. Russian шланг is almost certainly a loanword from German. —Angr 20:03, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

What's more, some of the Wheelsy ones have a Strudel-organ! --Reuben 17:35, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The Welsh Society of Philadelphia used to hold lessons at Arch Street Presbyterian Church, but I don't know whether they still do. Perhaps you could get in touch. Also, http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/ is very useful. Marnanel 23:02, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm learning Croatian just for the fun of it. It is a beautiful language with clear open vowels and a tonic accent that makes it sound somewhat sung. The grammar is complex, with both conjugated verbs and declined nouns and adjectives, and an interesting word order, but the tense system is a lot simpler than English, apart from the concept of verbal aspect. I've got a certain amount of audio from Pimsleur, and found a superb technical grammar book online, but have had to do a lot of hunting to find more resources! 82.46.44.139 15:51, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

All Slavic languages are similar in this respect. --Ghirla^-трёп- 06:42, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Translation from English

Please help to understand the following: "Serving customers is not something a business does going forward"(it's from a humorous book). I'm not sure that I can understand this structure correctly. Does it mean "Serving custromers is not something a business does [when it is] going forward? Thank you, Elena

I'm not sure I understand it either, but "going forward" is a phrase from the new generation of business-speak (it means "in the future" or "from now on", roughly), along the same lines as "leveraging synergies" or "recontextualizing paradigms". The knowing use of such phrases can be humorous in itself. Tesseran 11:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, it did help, Elena

Tesseran is correct, but I think in this context the meaning should be taken as "as it moves into the future" or "when it has an eye on the future". --Anonymous, June 5, 2007, 22:30 (UTC).

WTF in Chinese

How would one say "what the fuck" in Chinese? My friend says it's 什么他妈的, but that doesn't sound quite right. --Anakata 23:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

You can't translate slangs easily to other languages. WP 11:25, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Omit 什么. Profanity isn't that long... Chinese who say this only put it as 他妈的 or 干你娘. By the way, both are insulting mothers. If one wants to insult the recipient directly, it should be 去你的, but this is without any profanity words.--61.92.239.192 02:44, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

"What the fuck" isn't supposed to be insulting to anyone! It just expresses bewilderment in a somewhat vulgar way. Recury 13:11, 7 June 2007 (UTC)