Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2017 June 24

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June 24

Wiki article for *Karen Handel* - possible issue of "circular sourcing"

I believe I may have encountered some circular sourcing (where A is a source for B, B is a source for C, C is a source for A, and so on) or general dearth of information regarding a statement on Karen Handel's page. It states: "she served as deputy chief of staff to Vice President Dan Quayle's wife, Marilyn, where she worked to promote breast cancer awareness and research." The cited links all either (a) route to broken links, or (b) don't actually provide that information. When I tried to do my own research (ie googling), I get a lot of circular sourcing, with every newspaper article/media outlet regurgitating the same generalized information: that Handel worked for Marilyn Quayle. I can't find a direct source, nor can I find any additional information (when did she work for Marilyn? for how long? in what exact capacity? etc.) Given the recent election, I think it'd be great to find a better source and clarify things. I appreciate your help! UltravioletAlien (talk) 05:47, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

If someone doesn't come up with one, I think you should post something on the article's talk page and tag the statements with {{better source}} ("") or {{failed verification}} ("") as applicable. See those templates. --76.71.5.114 (talk) 06:03, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

There's an article in the Indianpolis Star 24 October 2012, Wednesday, page B3 that quotes Handel making a speech: "When I worked for Dan and Marilyn [Quayle] as a young staffer, I was extermely impacted by their faith...." and goes on to describe Handel's experience "as she tried to cut grant funding for Planned Parenthood." She supported "Susan G. Komen for the Cure"'s (initial, later reconsidered) decision to cut grant funding for Planned Parenthood because they could get more money and the Planned Parenthood studies were "poor-quality grants that weren't helpping the fight against breast cancer." So there at least we have the Quayle connection in her own words. Handel resigned from Komen to protest the reversal of their decision about Planned Parenthood. - Nunh-huh 06:50, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Another article in the Baltimore Sun, 4 February 2012, Saturday, page A14 quotes "Rob Simms, a close friend [of Handel] who aided Handel's political career saying that "Handel had worked as deputy chief of staff to Marilyn Quayle, wife of Former Vice President Dan Quayle, as part of her breast cancer awareness outreach efforts." "Simms is now [i.e. in 2012] chief of staff to Rep. Bill Shuster, a Pennsylvania Republican." - Nunh-huh 06:56, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Thank you both. UltravioletAlien (talk) 06:04, 25 June 2017 (UTC)

Creation of fantasy names

In the Hunger Games, there are the names Katniss (feminine) and Peeta (masculine). In the Game of Thrones, there is the name Daenerys (Dany, feminine). Real-life names often imply a person's culture, but in a fantasy world, these names apparently have no culture. Instead, they seem to be derived from real-world names like "Kat" (short for Katherine), "Peter", and "Danielle" (feminine form of Daniel). Do fiction writers ever take into account of the language and naming pattern of a particular culture? Maybe a person's given name is "Tree-Stump", because his parents think it's a good idea to name a kid "Tree-Stump". The person's family name may be "Ugga-ugga", which is the Romanized form derived from an archaic word in the kid's native language that means "grunting". And the author writes in English, because English is a real-world language and the audience understands English. So, as a whole, the person's name is Tree-Stump Ugga-ugga. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 17:05, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Fantasy is well-known for created names in fictional cultures, not culture-less names as you claim. Even your example show this. Katniss is the name of a flower with an edible root (she is known for her hunting and foraging) - her sister's name is Primrose (a medicinal herb name for a healer). Tolkien was the most elaborate: Languages_constructed_by_J._R._R._Tolkien. See also Characters in Earthsea. This page looks at George R.R. Martin's naming system. Rmhermen (talk) 18:36, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

I think it's noteworthy that the name form of the original language is kept, but somehow, in the process of Romanization, the name is spelled a particular way, such as "Daenerys". When it comes to East Asian names, for example, a person named 洋洋 may use the pinyin spelling, "Yang Yang". A literal translation of the name would be "Ocean Ocean". To reflect the one-syllable original word, "Sea Sea" may be the translated name. Practically, many native Chinese speakers simply choose an English name that bears no connection to the Chinese name. By the way, "Sea Sea" sounds like "Cece", which is actually a recognized name in Western culture. It is short for Cecil or Cecelia. 50.4.236.254 (talk) 21:36, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

[For anyone confused by this non-sequitur, it appears to be a misplaced response to answers in another thread on the Language Ref desk, also initiated by 50.4.236.254. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.221.82.167 (talk) 15:34, 25 June 2017 (UTC)]

Noted that this is a non-sequitur, but thought I would mention that "洋洋", "Yang Yang" almost certainly does not mean "Ocean Ocean". Chinese parents who choose this name are likely to have in mind the four-character idiom "喜氣洋洋", "xiqi yangyang" "to be full of happy spirit", where the "yangyang" bit means being satisfied or smug. It would be quite weird for this to be "translated" into "Ocean Ocean" or "Sea Sea", no matter how closely the latter sounds like Cece or Sissi (which, by the way, is popular as an "English" name amongst Chinese people due to the cultural influence of the film depicting Empress Elisabeth of Austria). --PalaceGuard008 (Talk) 10:43, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

IMO, the master of fantasy naming is Jack Vance. While others often invent names that just sound fake and made up, his often odd-sounding creations still have a verisimilitude that nobody else comes close to. Clarityfiend (talk) 07:12, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Not even Lord Dunsany? —Tamfang (talk) 19:38, 29 June 2017 (UTC)