Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2013 December 27

Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages.

December 27

School forms

How do forms in British schools work? I'm reading Malory Towers and I am confused by the term 'upper fourth'. Obviously we still have lower and upper sixth (Yrs 12&13) but how do the rest of them work? Sixth Form states that secondary school begins with first form, and then each new 'year' equals one old 'form' except for sixth form equal to two 'years'. But how can that work with the idea of 'upper fourth' in Malory Towers, implying that the six forms, equal to twelve years of secondary education? This school seems to have lower and upper fifth forms, and lower and upper sixth, but 'only' one fourth form. How does it all fit together? Is first form the first year of primary school or of secondary school? 92.30.199.154 (talk) 00:18, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

This is how it worked in its most logical and common shape. At entry to secondary school, children entered the first form. They progressed though the second, third, fourth and fifth forms, then if they continued, the lower and upper sixth. But Malory Towers as a private boarding school was free to make its own arrangements. I'd forgotten that it had an upper fourth. Similarly Greyfriars School had a "fourth form remove" that Billy Bunter was in. It's a kind of grade repetition and/or streaming. Itsmejudith (talk) 08:25, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Here are a couple of more references - scroll to the posts by havingastress [1] and Rosina Rowantree [2] who went to schools with a system like this. Secondary school seemed to start with the third. Another interesting discussion of a range of systems is here [3] with a note that "upper" and "lower" came from the seating arrangements at Rugby. 142.134.220.49 (talk) 12:11, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

This seems now to have been superseded by the use of Years and Key Stages. Here is a very useful table explaining the current differences between UK and US systems. --TammyMoet (talk) 13:10, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Many older schools had (perhaps still have) idiosyncratic naming. At Merchant Taylors' School, Northwood, where I went from 1967 to 1973 the youngest class (with the comparatively few entrants from state schools at age 11) was called the Third Form, then most entrants came from Prep schools at age 12-13 into the Upper Fourth, then successive years were the Divisions, the Fifth, the Lower Sixth and the Upper Sixth. There was a Lower Fourth for people entering in January or April rather than September. It was pretty standard that the Sixth Form meant ages 16-18 anywhere in England (and I think the rest of the UK), but below that there was a lot of variability, especially in independent schools. --ColinFine (talk) 13:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. See also our Preparatory school (United Kingdom) article. Alansplodge (talk) 19:51, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Can I create an article on Shinzo Abe's visit to the war shrine?

Thank you. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by CHN13 (talk • contribs) 02:08, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

You'd have to find serious in depth coverage that showed it was more than just a routine poltical event, or it will be deleted pretty quickly. You are probably much better off adding a section to his article or expanding that if it already exists. If te section gets large enough it can always then be separated out into its own article. This is the reference desk, we help people find references or existing articles. If you need further help creating an article the place for future questions will be WP:HELP or, for beginning editors, WP:TEAHOUSE. μηδείς (talk) 02:18, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Probably not a good idea per WP:NOTNEWS. This is covered in the already-existing Controversies surrounding Yasukuni Shrine article. Nick-D (talk) 05:00, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

What is the Greek myth about Alcyone who waited for her loves' return at Alcyonian Lake?

Venustar84 (talk) 13:18, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Are you unsatisfied with the account of the myth in the article that you linked to? Looie496 (talk) 05:44, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

This source suggests that the "Alcyonian Lake" (a name found only in Pausanias, as far as I know) was named for Alcyone (Pleiades), not for the wife of Ceyx. In any event, I don't think there is any myth about a woman waiting for her love's return at the lake, since Pausanias does not refer to any such story—he associates the lake only with Dionysus' journey to the underworld. Deor (talk) 11:53, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Could you be thinking of Narcissus, who was so in love with his image he spent his life staring at his own reflection in a pool, until he died, and later had the flower named for him ? StuRat (talk) 12:04, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Well mythology can get mixed up depending on what version you hear. 13:15, 27 December 2013 Venustar84 (talk) 13:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

NASCAR and Pickaninny

I seem to recall watching televised NASCAR races a few years ago, and the fellow who started the race would holler "Boogity boogity pickaninny! Let's go racing!". The many examples on the pickaninny page and my Google searching turn up no mention. Am I misremembering? Cthulhu42 (talk) 04:03, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

If you're saying that happened repeatedly on TV, I don't believe it. NASCAR is not known for a broad view of culture, but I don't believe something with such obvious racist connotations would be allowed to pass. Looie496 (talk) 05:42, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Somebody called Darrell Waltrip seems to use the words "Boogity, boogity, boogity, let's go racing boys!". --194.166.17.4 (talk) 06:44, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Ooops, --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 06:45, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it's very unlikely Waltrip would ever use a term like "pickaninny" on the air. And I didn't find anything in Google. However, here's a compilation of Waltrip's variations on his "boogety-boogety" catchphrase.[4] And in case you're unaware, that "boogety" (or various similar spellings) has been around a long time, and is kind of a cousin to "giddyup". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 02:29, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

British Consul at Tahiti who traveled to Raiatea

Who was this British Consul at Tahiti who traveled to Raiatea aboard a French man-of-war to convince the Raiatean not to raise the British flag, mentioned here? The year was either 1895, 1896, 1897.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:36, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

It looks like his name was Robert T. Simons. Here is a 1909 article saying he had been consul at Tahiti for 14 years (that is, since around 1895). The incident occurred in January 1896 (here is a French report from Feb. 1896 [4th column with "Raiatea" highlighted in yellow]).--Cam (talk) 03:49, 28 December 2013 (UTC)