Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Entertainment/2022 May 30

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May 30

Bridge a sport - only duplicate bridge, or also with chance?

The IOC recognizes contract bridge as a sport. But does that apply only to duplicate bridge or also to rubber bridge with randomly dealt cards? --KnightMove (talk) 09:09, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

It's not a sport according to the European Court of Justice, whether duplicate or just plain contract.[1] (It's no more a sport than poker or gin rummy IMO, regardless of what the IOC says.) Clarityfiend (talk)

People argue about whether chess etc. should be admitted to the Olympic Games, some saying No because it isn't a sport, merely a game. Yet the Olympic Games are called just that, and not Olympic Sports. However, every event they stage is a sport, not a game. Go figure. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 21:37, 4 June 2022 (UTC)

Some countries do recognize poker and duplicate bridge as sports. I'm not very familiar with bridge, so I'm not sure if that includes rubber bridge. I'm thinking probably not, but logically a player (a team) who has an advantage in duplicate bridge will ceteris paribus have an advantage in rubber bridge, just often take much longer to realize it because the luck of starting hands isn't removed. 31.217.0.88 (talk) 22:29, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

That's quite right. And as a player of duplicate bridge I'd like to note that it certainly does not eliminate all elements of luck. You can get the same good result because you made a clever play or because your opponents made a stupid one; or because you tried a play that would only work if your left-hand opponent had exactly six cards in hearts, but this was true; or because your opponents' methods work better for certain types of deals but none of those deals can came up in the match.

On the subject, I can't resist posting this dialogue, which I transcribed years ago from the TV sitcom Sports Night. The show was set at a TV sports channel, and in this episode, the staff realized that, by a coincidence of scheduling, there was next to nothing going on that day in any sport that their viewers might be interested in, and so they had next to nothing to report on. So they had a meeting...

Natalie: Here's something.

Dana: What?

Natalie: East bid 2 clubs, South bid 4 diamonds, and North came back with 5 notrump.

Dana: Bridge?

Natalie: Yeah.

Dana: [pause] Is there footage? [Natalie nods]

Casey: We're going to cover bridge?

Dan: [It]'s the sport of kings.

Dana: No, once again, it's not the sport of kings. Horse racing is the sport of kings.

Jeremy [aside]: Give me the dumplings.

Dan: What's bridge the sport of?

Dana: Bridge isn't a sport.

Dan: Sure it's a sport.

Dana: Well, I think at the very least people have to be moving.

Count me with Dana. --174.95.160.48 (talk) 03:58, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

"...people have to be moving" - that reminds me of commentators on football in Australia (rugby league, rugby union, soccer, Australian Rules), who regularly describe games or teams as "very physical". As if it's possible to play a ball game in any other way. -- Jack of Oz ^{[pleasantries]} 08:31, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

The issue is more how one defines the term sport. The European Court of Justice did not rule on the general meaning of the term, but solely^[2] on how the term should be interpreted specifically in the context of article 132(1)(m) of the EU VAT Directive 2006/112/EC, which states: "Member States shall exempt the following transactions: [...] (m) the supply of certain services closely linked to sport or physical education by nonprofit-making organisations to persons taking part in sport or physical education". When ruling on the interpretation of the text of a law, courts generally also consider what the legislators meant, which obviously includes the context in which a term is used, but may also include the deliberations of the legislative bodies as laid down in the minutes. Clearly, more in general, people also use the term sport to refer to a competitive skill-based activity that does not involve significant physical exertion. When people have different points of view on the issue whether chess is a sport,^[3][4] it does not tell us how they view the game of chess, but merely how broadly or narrowly they interpret the term sport.  --Lambiam 09:50, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

As I recall, the World Chess Championship 1972 was treated like a sport. --←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:10, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Good form, bad form

We hear phrases like "he is in good form" or "he is out of form" in sports such as cricket, football or tennis. I could not find an article or even a section on this concept of form. In the context of sport we have form (exercise) which is different. The form I'm looking for is psychological, or related to the confidence level of the player. Can someone point me to content about it. Jay (talk) 11:18, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

I doubt if there is any here. It's just an expression, and Wikipedia is not a dictionary. The phrase "in good form" shows up in many articles, but that's about it. It's also applied to singers and others (e.g. Rodgers and Hammerstein for their work in The Sound of Music). Clarityfiend (talk) 11:28, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Definition 2.7 of "form" at Wiktionary makes this meaning clear. Shantavira|^{feed me} 11:40, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Personally, I've always understood it to be referring to the Horse Racing version (Form (horse racing) - the idea that recent results can indicate future performance. Nanonic (talk) 15:12, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

The sense of fitness to perform also exists in French for the noun forme^[5][6][7] and the German noun Form,^[8][9][10] but as far as I know (and could find), these are not used for a record of a horse's performance. The collocation in optima forma can be found in 16th-century Latin texts^[11][12][13] and even used in official Dutch documents,^[14] in which there is clearly no connection to horse racing.  --Lambiam 10:25, 1 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Clarityfiend, Shantavira, Nanonic, Lambiam. I would have expected it to be more than an expression, and something sport psychologists would have indulged in, but I could not find a mention there as well. Jay (talk) 11:56, 2 June 2022 (UTC)